Return of the King (Pt. 1)

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome back to B and C Book Club. I'm Kristen. [00:00:04] Speaker B: And I'm Summer. This is the podcast where we bring all the comfort and gossip of a regular book club. But just between you, me and her. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Yes. And you may be wondering what the B and the C stand for. Well, the B stands for brightness and. [00:00:18] Speaker B: The C stands for contrast. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. How has your life been going, though, Summer? [00:00:25] Speaker B: Kevin, can I just say, for half a second, I picked out a word at like 8am this morning. I was doing these notes and I was like, I actually have a great word for today. Completely forgot it just now. I have no idea what the word was. [00:00:40] Speaker A: You just write it down? No. That's so funny. [00:00:46] Speaker B: I feel like it was somewhere in the realm of contrast. Anyway, life is going pretty decently. I've been doing some photo shoots recently, so I'm excited to, like, spend my creative mind. [00:00:59] Speaker A: Speaking of your creative mind, how has the book been going? [00:01:03] Speaker B: My book writing is going well. I actually this morning had. Because I was spending my creative mind with all these photo shoots I've been doing this morning. I had a little burst of energy and I had some ideas for the book, so I wrote them down. But I didn't actually write in the book. [00:01:19] Speaker A: So going. But it's just slower than it was before because I think you busted out that 300 and however many pages pretty quickly. I wrote that in, like, two months maybe, if that. [00:01:32] Speaker B: Three months. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:33] Speaker B: I literally have the timeline written down because I was like, that's impressive. But then I. I, like, read it back and I'm like, this book is crappy. Like, no wonder it took me so short. Like, it's not that good. How's life going? How's work? [00:01:44] Speaker A: Oh, right. Me. [00:01:47] Speaker B: That person. [00:01:48] Speaker A: It's fine. It's good. Yeah. Today we are on our last book of the Lord of the Rings series. Thank the Lord. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Thank Tolkien. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Thank you. Because. Oh, man, it's been a long road getting here. We have been reading these books for months and months now. We started a long time ago. It's been four months. [00:02:12] Speaker B: We've been reading Lord of the Rings for four months. Oh. In spirit of Lord of the Rings. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Hey. Oh, you have your Legolas shirt on again. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Isn't he handsome? I thought it was very in the spirit today. [00:02:26] Speaker A: He's very spirit. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Gotta get locked in with Legolas here, even though he's barely in this book. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. I was very shocked at how Legolas and Gimli are basically not mentioned. [00:02:39] Speaker B: They're mentioned like, twice. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:42] Speaker B: They don't get like, they have two conversations. [00:02:44] Speaker A: They have one conversation with Aragorn and one conversation with Pippin and Merry, and that's it. [00:02:48] Speaker B: That's literally it. Legolas stands. I'm so sorry. Talking. Did you like that? [00:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah, but we. I don't know if I said it. We're reading Return of the King, which is our last book, and technically, this book is not our last book. It's book five out of book six, but it's our last quote, unquote book. And this section of the book is called the War of the Ring. And I thought that was fun because I didn't realize that they had subheaders before. And then when I was researching this one, I found the subheader for book five and I found the subheader for book six, and that was it. [00:03:23] Speaker B: Interesting. I didn't even know that, but apparently. [00:03:26] Speaker A: This is according to Wikipedia, so don't quote me. Well, I guess you can quote Wikipedia, but apparently Tolkien didn't even really like the name Return of the King because he feels like it gives too much away and he would rather it be called the War of the Ring for the whole book. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Honestly, that makes sense, because Return of the King, like, technically gives it away if you're, like, just starting to read it. I mean, obviously, in our current modern world, everybody knows. Context, everyone knows. But, like, back then. Then, yeah, that makes sense. [00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah. But this was published about a year after Two Towers, so this one was published in October 5, 1955, and the Two Towers was published in November 1954. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Honestly, that's. It's not surprising at all that he released it only a year later, because I feel like he definitely wrote this while he was writing the other book. Like, it just was seamless. He didn't really need time to think about the plot. Like, he knew everything that was going to happen. [00:04:32] Speaker A: I was going to say this for the end, but especially because so much of what we want to know about Frodo and Sam happening during the time frame of everything that's happening with the war, we already covered in the Two Towers. Like, we got past everybody to this point, and now is the converging time, which is going to be book Six, because now we're on the same timeline. But. But we were still catching up on this whole half of the book, which I kept having to remind myself because I kept thinking, like, where? Why are they not giving us a chapter? And I'm like, fuck. Like, technically, we did get these chapters. It was just in the last book, so it feels slightly unsatisfying. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Which. So that's the beginning of this book. We put, like, little notes before we started. And I said, first of all, I want all these stories to finally blend together. I want us to be on the same timeline. I want us to know where the other people are. Like, please, please, Tolkien, please. I don't want another separate these two over here book. And then everybody else. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:30] Speaker B: Which is exactly what we got. Spoiler alert. I was hearing from them. [00:05:35] Speaker A: I. I wasn't expecting it until I started reading. And then I think it was like chapter three and we went back to one of them again. And I was like, fck. We're still technically behind them. We talked about this on the last podcast, is how, like, they're technically, like, three weeks ahead of them. They're really far ahead. [00:05:51] Speaker B: Yeah. The timeline for these books is kind of crazy and it's hard to keep track of until, like, they blatantly say, hey, Sam and Frodo were seen two days ago. [00:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:01] Speaker B: And we're like, are you kidding me? It's only been two days since that happened. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was. That was the hardest for me. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it gets. It's rough. It's rough out here. [00:06:18] Speaker A: It can get rough. [00:06:19] Speaker B: But let's start with the book. [00:06:20] Speaker A: All right, so we are now on chapter one. We are in Pippin's point of view. The chapter title is Minas Turith. We're with Gandalf. And it's been three days since we last saw them. At the end of book three, I believe it is technically at the end of book three, which was the first half of the two showers. [00:06:42] Speaker B: Yes. The last thing that happened was, oh. [00:06:46] Speaker A: Yeah, we should do a recap. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Gandalf and Pippin rode away from the rest of them and they went somewhere. We didn't even. Like, I don't even think we knew where they were going. They just rode away. Because Pippin had had a dream and, like, basically interacted with the Dark Lord. So he was like, I gotta take you. Let's go. [00:07:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So he takes them. They're on the road. Nothing really happens on the road. But Gandalf is trying to tell Pippin a couple of things about Gondor and what their expectations are. And then I guess they do meet some people on the road. They meet some writers who tell them like, hey, you're not supposed to be out here. And then they're like, we're just trying to get to your guys city. Like, it's not a big deal. And so then they basically escort them to the first gate. And then they're able to go through all the rest and they reach the seventh gate there. This is like a ring. I couldn't really understand how this was set up, I'm gonna be honest with you. But they're in the seventh gate. This is the inside gate. And they're brought in automatically to see the Lord of Gondor whose name is Denethor. And as they're walking in, Gandalf is warning Pippin about Denethor because he's a lot harder to deal with than Theoden because Theoden's pretty, like, chill and a nice guy and a nice king and just, like, likes to hang out where Denethor, I guess, is not chill and not really a nice guy. So he's like, just be wary of him. Spoiler alert. [00:08:11] Speaker B: I hate him. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Spoiler alert. I was very lukewarm on him until the very end. [00:08:17] Speaker B: I hated him the whole time because he's so mean to Foramir. [00:08:20] Speaker A: He is so mean to Faramir. Yeah, he really is. I was like, damn, dude. You really. [00:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah, he hates his son. And then at the end, he's like, I don't hate, hate him anyway. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah. One thing I will say, as they're walking into the city, they're like, it's super, super pretty. But also, it looks like it's falling into disrepair because there's not enough people here to upkeep it. And it kind of seems like the beautiful city is a little bit dwindling. Also, we hear something about a tree in the middle. And I think this might be important later. I don't know. I have never actually watched this movie, so I don't know if it'll be important later. But it's on the COVID The seven stars, the seven stones, and then the one white tree. So I'll just mention it because I don't know if that'll come up. Also, they randomly, in this area, drop that. Gandalf's name is Gandalf Stormcrow. Did you see that? That they dropped his last name. And I was like, was that his last name or is that just. No, nothing. [00:09:15] Speaker B: Honestly. They gave Gandalf so many different names during this part. They, like, called him a billion different things. I was like, I can't do this. I don't have the attention span for that dude. [00:09:27] Speaker A: Yeah, he's Gandalf Mythrander or something like that. That's where he comes from. [00:09:31] Speaker B: Like mirth. Yeah, something like that. And I was like, come on. I'm already having a difficult time with this book. You can't be dragging me through all of that. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Okay? So Gandalf also warns Pippin to not tell Denethor about Aragorn. He's like, don't tell him anything. He doesn't want to know about it. All right? And this is when I remembered. Oh, right, because Aragorn is the rightful king. I forgot about that. They say, honestly, it's not even a spoiler. Because literally, anytime that he's brought up in conversation and they say his name, they're like, hey, guys, this is the rightful king, just to let you know. And Denethor is apparently Boromir's and Faramir's father, and he's the lord of the city. He's in charge of everything until the rightful king comes back. And he wants to know everything about Boromir's lip death because his horn was brought back through the river. And so he realized that he was dead because it was broken. And Pippin does his best to tell Denethor what happened, but he's also just trying to go quickly because Gandalf wants to talk to Denethor and talk to him about the city and talk to him about, I'm assuming, the defenses they're gonna have. I honestly don't know what he really had to talk to him about other than, like, trying to get ready for war. And then he also. Denethor, in this conversation was like, dang, I wish that my other son Faramir, died instead of Boromir. Wow. He was like, I really liked Boromir. And Denethor is kind of a bitch. [00:10:58] Speaker B: So that's what I was saying. He's a horrible person. [00:11:03] Speaker A: And this is when I was like, oh, right. If we're talking about Faramir. I feel like Faramir, at this point in the story, hasn't even met Frodo yet. So we were actually, like, very far behind them. And this is when I realized, oh, I'm probably not going to see them on this half of the book. [00:11:18] Speaker B: I never realized that until they said, hey, this happened two days ago. And I was like, no. [00:11:28] Speaker A: And Denethor gets really mad at Pippin about the story of Boromir's death because he's like, so my son basically died to protect you, you little shit. Like, what the fuck? And so Pippin is like, okay, I pledge myself to you because technically, like, I owe my life to this place and to Boromir. So I'm gonna pledge myself into your service. And so he decides that he's going to make him a Guard in his service. And then he tells him because of this, he. He's like, okay, so now that you're in my service now, you need to tell me every single detail of everything that happened on the journey and everything that you did with Boromir and everything that you didn't tell me. Everything. And Gandalf on the side is just fuming because he's like, we don't have time for this. I don't know why you need this fucking story, but, like, we just don't have time for this. But Denethor refuses to talk to Gandalf. He refuses to take any advice from. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Gandalf because he's a dick. [00:12:26] Speaker A: The only thing I have in response to this is, yes, he's a dick. But he seems like they already know they're going to war. He is doing all the preparations that he needs to. He's just a dick. Like, if he wasn't doing any of those things, and he was more like King Theoden, where he was just behind his walls and he was pretending like nothing was happening because Wormtongue was telling him that nothing was happening, then it's one thing because he just wasn't, like, trying. He wasn't trying to protect his city. But Denethor loves his city. He wants his city to be exactly how his city was. And so I'm like, he. He is protecting the city. What more do you want from him? You just. [00:12:57] Speaker B: I guess that's true. Yeah. [00:12:58] Speaker A: You just want him to be nicer to you. Like, he's doing what he needs to do. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Doing his job, buddy. [00:13:08] Speaker A: And so, because Gandalf is so upset about this, he just goes off and he's gonna try and figure other things out. He, like, goes to the House of the Lords or something to try and talk to everybody. And Pippin goes to the Wall, the city walls. And he meets a guard there, Beregond, who gives him the passage to the city and helps him, like, find his stuff and figure out where to go. And they talk a little bit because they can see Mordor from the city wall. And so they can see that everything is gathering. There's a lot of darkness over there. And then there's also some, like, Ring Wraiths and Nazguls falling overhead. And so they get a little scared and they talk about this, the land and the city. And then there's just. Pippin just goes all around. He just goes to the gate and then he, like, sees some people coming. [00:13:57] Speaker B: He has a tour and. [00:13:58] Speaker A: Yeah, he just does a whole tour and he goes and sees all of the people that he's going to be with. And they eat and drink and everything. And for once, he doesn't tell anybody about the Ring. I was like, this is the first time that hobbits have eaten and drinking with anybody and not told their entire life story to anybody. I'm very proud of you, Pippin. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Good job. Gandalf warned his ass, too. [00:14:19] Speaker A: He was like, you dare better not say anything. And it's a good thing he did. So then Pippin goes and he's. Honestly, he's waiting for Gandalf this whole. And then he just falls asleep because Gandalf isn't back. And then in the middle of the night, he wakes up and Gandalf is back in the room. And he's pacing and he's like, I really need Faramir to come back. Like, I just rather have Faramir here. And then he tells him, like, we have to go and talk to Denethor. Early, early in the morning. As soon as dawn comes, we're gonna go and talk to Denethor. And then he's like, well, there's like, a darkness that has settled over them. And he then says that the darkness has become. They have to wait for somebody to call on them because the darkness has begun and there will be no dawn. [00:15:08] Speaker B: The way you said that made me say, dun, dun, dun. [00:15:11] Speaker A: That's what it felt like when I was reading it. That's the way he said it. The way I read it, I was like. [00:15:19] Speaker B: What'S crazy is it took me so. It literally took me four hours to get past this chapter one because I just could not get into it because it felt so, like. Like an intermission. Like, everything was super slow. He was getting a tour of the city. He was hanging out with these soldier dudes. And I was like, come on. Like, I expected this whole book to be just action, action, action. Because we're, like, trying to conclude things. We're trying to wrap things up. We're trying to get shit done. And it's just like, oh, look, there's some things flying around. Look at the pretty walls. And I'm like, come on, let's move it. [00:15:58] Speaker A: I think the problem is we needed to. Because we never been in. Even though this is the end of the story, we've never been in this location before. And so we needed to kind of scope out the city in order to win. The fights happen, understand where everybody's at. Even though I still don't really understand where everybody's at. I Kind of understand where people are at and how far people are from each other. And because he did his tour, I kind of understand the landscape of the city, but also not really. [00:16:23] Speaker B: I actually. I don't think the tour made a difference for my understanding of this battle. [00:16:31] Speaker A: But, yeah, I would say half of this chapter was everything that Pippin does after meeting Denethor. And it's everything that. Of like, becoming a soldier and everything. And I'm like, I really don't need this much of this book to be this. Please. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I literally wrote. So Pippin and Gandalf are hanging out with Boromir's father while Fordo is with Boromir's brother. And then Pippin swears himself to the Lord. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah, but there's a lot of interpersonal dynamics. Okay. That we have to talk about. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Dewey, is it relevant? [00:17:07] Speaker A: I think it is relevant because Denethor dies in this section of the book. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Danneth. Or. First of all, you just said he dies. [00:17:15] Speaker A: He lights himself on fire. I mean, does that not make him dead? [00:17:21] Speaker B: That's a spoiler alert if I've ever heard one, Kristen. That's what I was talking about. Not the difference between him dying and lighting himself on fire. Anyway, my whole point to saying, is it relevant? Is, are the side characters relevant? Where we were meeting that little soldier and we're meeting his son and all those small, little things. Because I don't really think they are. Because they don't make a difference later in the book. Even though, yes, the son is like, hey, I'll show you the healer's ward later in the book. I don't actually think that those characters make a difference. [00:17:57] Speaker A: What are you talking about? Bryggebon is the one who stops Denethor from killing Faramir. He's the one who fights off the servants. Right. [00:18:05] Speaker B: But, like, so you just say the soldier, like it's not necess. You can. I'm gonna go down a whole path. You don't want me to go down this path right now. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Okay, I will defend this. Because if they weren't friends, then he wouldn't have left his post because of how, like, so up on the hierarchy they are. He was telling him, even as a friend, Pippin, like, I cannot leave my post. I'm gonna get in trouble. And he's like, you have to do this. And he can only appeal to him because he knows him and because he knows that he's in love with Faramir and how much of a great leader he is to him. More than the actual king, Denethor. And so he is able to use him and his relationship with him in order to get him to go and help Faramir. [00:18:48] Speaker B: Okay, I see your argument. And we're going to move on. That's where I'm leaving that. So the next chapter is actually from Mary's perspective now. And so we actually get to see what Mary's been doing this whole time. And he basically is just hanging out with the Rowan King and Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. And he, like, ends up swearing himself to King Theoden, who is the Rohan king. And Aragorn is like, all right, I have to leave because, you know, battle's happening and I. This. They had this company of men show up who happened to be Aragorn's friends. And they kind of, like, brought him some news but they don't tell us what it is right away. They're like, yeah, we have something to tell you. And then he's like, okay. And then he's like. Comes back and he's like, oh, by the way, I have to leave. I'm gonna go take this really dangerous path called Paths of the Dead because of something that Elrond told his sons to tell me. And so I've gotta go. Who wants to come? And Legolas and Gimli are like, yeah, we're coming. Unfortunately, Mary, you're stuck here because you just swore yourself to the king. Have fun. Bye. So they leave Aragorn, it. He, like, explains it a little because we changed him. Aragorn's perspective and leave Mary behind. And he said he looked in the Stone of. Or Oranic. That was hard for me. Orthanic and showed Sauron, basically because it was, like, a connection between them that he's the Heir of Sulfur, he lives on and he's a sword of Elendil. And basically he's coming for him. And he's like, now we gotta go. Now we gotta go. I also thought it was. And this is the dyslexia brain coming in. I thought it was minus truth this whole time. I wrote that this entire time. And I didn't realize until you literally just said at the beginning of chapter one, minus Tirith, that it wasn't truth. And I'm kind of, like, bugging out at how crazy that is. [00:21:05] Speaker A: Which book did you read it with? Did you read it with the small book or the big book? [00:21:08] Speaker B: I read it with the big book. [00:21:10] Speaker A: Oh. It literally has meanest truth in the first one. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Again, my dyslexia brain just read Truth. Every single time. Anytime it popped up, it read. It like skipped over the word. It was like, hey, no, it. We're good. [00:21:29] Speaker A: I get it. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Anyway, minus truth. [00:21:35] Speaker A: Okay, so we have 10 days until minus truth gets destroyed. And honestly, I cannot believe that we actually have a countdown from Tolkien because I just wasn't expecting it from how willy nilly we've had this timeline so far, an actual countdown to like, we are going to be destroyed by this day. I was like, oh, fuck. Things get him real. [00:21:54] Speaker B: It's the first time. He was like, actually, guys, we. We have a plan. We need to save this place before 10 days. After that, they ride to the place where Lady Irwin is. And she. She's like, hey, yeah, I can. I can get you lodging, whatever you need. And he's like, great. And she's like, where are you going? And he's like, oh, I'm gonna take the path of the dead. And he. She's like, I don't fucking think so. And he's like, no, I am. And she was like, please don't. He said, no, I'm still taking it. She said, okay, I'm coming. And he said, no, you're not. No, you're not. And begs him, begs him, begs him. And he's like, no. And so during their goodbye, she's like bawling her eyes out and everybody's seeing her cry. Well, I wouldn't say she's bawling her eyes out. That's a little dramatic. But she's definitely crying and everyone definitely sees her crying. And they're like, this is a little awkward. And then they go to the caves and Gimli's like, this is the first time that a Dwarf does not want to go in a cave because we're usually very comfortable there. I don't like this. I don't want to be here. I. And Legolas is like, come on, we can just. Let's just keep going. They make it through pretty easily, actually. So they go through the caves. Aragorn called on the Dead. And now the dead are going to fulfill an oath and help fight against Sauron. And so they start following them. And Legolith, Legolas is like, hey, the Dead's following us. And one of the soldiers is like, yep, that's happening. And they move on. I'm like, about to cry as they go. Men call Aragorn the King of the Dead because the Dead are following him. Let's just move on. We're not. We just finished Chapter two. [00:24:05] Speaker A: Yeah, we gotta go. And this is why it took so long for us to get through the first four chapters because it's just dense and everything about it is, like, ridiculous. Okay, so now it's the muster of Rohan. We are back with Mary. And we reach the castle that Aragorn just left. And Eolon tells us everything that happened and how they went to the Paths of the Dead. And then a messenger comes from Gondor and they said that they need reinforcements. They're like, hey, sorry, you guys just got back. But, like, we really need help because Mordor is coming for us. And so obviously King Theoden says that he's going to help and he's going to get 6,000 to come to their aid. But even if they leave tomorrow morning, which they will when they have everything together, it still will take a week for them to reach Minth. And they already think that is too late. [00:24:53] Speaker B: Yeah, but you know what's more than a week? 10 days. [00:25:00] Speaker A: So true. So true. So they have a little bit of time, but not very much time. But this is also one of the reasons why Aragorn left in the first place because he kept asking them, like, how long is it going to take for you to get to your castle? How long is it going to take for you to get to this place? Well, actually, I think they will actually be at 10 days because the 10 days started with Aragorn. And so it took them three days to get to the castle. And so now it's going to take them seven to get there. So they should get there on the 10th day. And so that was the whole reason that Aragorn left was because he was like, you guys are going to take too long. I have to hurry up and go through the Paths of the Dead to make a quick little getaway in order to get there early. Which, by the way, still gets there later than them. Ridiculous. But that was the whole plan was to get there earlier. That's. That was the reason that they did that. And then darkness comes to the land and Theoden asked Mary to stay behind because he's like, hey, I wanted you in my company when I thought I was going to be staying at my stronghold and just, like, holding it up. But if we're going to be going to war, I really don't think you should be in this area. But Mary really, really wants to go. And Eowyn takes him aside as they're preparing to leave and he's like, hey, Aragorn asked me to prepare, like, some armor for you. Because even though, like, they say that you can't leave. Like, you should be prepared and everything. And so he gets armor. And then just as he loses hope to leaving with everybody and going with the king and going on this journey to go to Minas Tirith, a very small soldier comes up to him and in a weird high voice, says, hey, if you want to come, I can hide you on my horse because we're both small. Come with me. And he's like, yes. So suspicious. This person's name is Dirnhelm. And honestly, I barely wrote the name Durnhelm because it's just Eowyn. Like, we already know that it's Eowyn. I've known this for my entire life. [00:26:54] Speaker B: Oh, have you? [00:26:56] Speaker A: Did you not? [00:26:57] Speaker B: No, I didn't. I'm gonna be honest here. Right back to the I. It's really hard for me to follow. The plot of this book didn't even, like, register any of that description. I was like, oh, some random soldiers. Like, hey, come with me. And he was like, okay. That's all that happened. But the way you put it just now, I was like, that's a little suspicious. Maybe I should have saw it coming. Yeah. [00:27:23] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:27:24] Speaker B: When he was like, oh, I'm your. I was like, oh. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Well, it worked. That's what was supposed to happen. But I think just because I know. So, like, this is. That was one of the things that I just knew about this book, knew about this movie, was that she has the whole, like, I'm no man sort of moment. And so as soon as she came walked in the story, I was like, okay, so that's Eolyn. There she is. I found her. [00:27:52] Speaker B: That's hilarious. Yo. When they pulled up, they said, like, it looks like she's been crying. And I was like, yeah, she's a simp, bro. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Okay. You keep calling her a simple. But honestly, it does. There was a couple more times in this book that I was like, oh, yeah, she does seem to like airborne more than I thought before. But I think it really is the movies tainting your view. Because I barely got simp. I was mostly getting like, she wants to do something useful, and she keeps getting told no. [00:28:19] Speaker B: Okay. But, like, why is it always with Aragorn? They're like, she stares at him a little too. Like, the beginning of this chapter, they were like, she only has eyes for him. Literally. Like, he said that, you know, why is talking pointing that out to us if. If she's not a simp, bro. [00:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah, but he's a very cool king. And she's like 15. I don't know. She's like 25. I don't know how old she's supposed to be. [00:28:45] Speaker B: I don't. I also do not know how old. [00:28:46] Speaker A: I feel like this is just like a. Oh, my God, you're so cool, and you're such a soldier and. Oh, my God, I wish that I could go and be like you. [00:28:56] Speaker B: Okay, I can see that point a little bit. I guess I could be tainted. So Mary finally goes off to battle. Now we switch to the next chapter, and we're back at Pippin's perspective. He's decided he's pretty hungry, but he's the Lord Dinathor's guard, so he. He can't leave his post, so he's not able to eat. And then he watches as black riders chase Faramir. And Faramir's finally arriving. He runs to the gates. Gandalf rides to save them, triumphant. And Pippin's like, of course. When everything's going to. Gandalf shows up and saves everybody. Because that's just what he does. And he even says it in the book, which I thought was actually hilarious. [00:29:40] Speaker A: I feel like there's a couple times in this part where he was like. And of course, like, oh, with the ending and the eagles and it was just like the story that Bilbo once told me. And I was like, that's so funny that you're like, yeah. And it was exactly like, what happened to the Hobbit? [00:29:52] Speaker B: You're right. Yeah. So then finally, Faramir gets there. And this is the chapter, Chapter four, where Faramir informs everyone that he two days ago, left Froto. He said, froto, you go on your mission. Goodbye. And we're. That's. Now we're all caught up with Froto and Sam. That was two days ago. All of this has happened in between. So that's our little. This is the moment where I'm like, we're not getting anything from them. Tolkien's gonna make us wait again. And then we go to Dinothor. He's upset because his son didn't bring him the ring. Gandalf's like, of course he didn't bring you the ring. What is wrong with you? Because Dinothor is a dick. And we've already gone through this. And Foramir is like, okay, peace out, guys. I'm gonna go lead the battle outside the walls. And we're gonna hold everybody off. Foramir's hit by a black arrow. He's hit by a black poisoned arrow. And his father, Dina Thor. He basically gives up all hope at that moment and is ready to die by his son and is like, I love him so much. We might as well die next to each other. And Pippin's like, no, he. He's still alive. And Diathor is like, no, he's gonna die. I'm gonna die. It's fine. We're just gonna all gonna die. Like, it's all great. And he releases Pippin. Pippin is like, don't release me. I'm trying to help you. And Pippin insists on staying with him. They find, like, this place to die. They go to the hall of Kings. And he's like, this is where I'm gonna die next to my son, because it's just what I'm gonna do. And Pippin's trying to help him. He's like, okay. And he goes. And he tries to get Gandalf. As he's going to get Gandalf, he sees that the last gate has fallen. Everybody else pulls up. I said, the squad pulls up. Because that's when the. This, the Rohan king, shows up. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yes. After Nazgul knocks down the gate. And Gandalf tries to stop him with just his voice, he's about to do the final blow. That's when everybody else from the north shows up. From Rohan shows up. But this is when I was like, where the is Aragorn? He was supposed to be there first. [00:32:27] Speaker B: Yo, I thought the same thing. I said, this is when Eric, like, literally, my notes are, we're finally getting this reunion with Aragorn and it doesn't even happen. [00:32:34] Speaker A: No. [00:32:37] Speaker B: Also, I. I was like, I didn't start this book going, oh, I want all these characters to get back together. But, like, by chapter four, I'm like, oh, my God, they all need to get back together right now. Like, please reunite. [00:32:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I also was like, I couldn't believe that Denisor kind of just went off the deep end. He was like, we're all gonna die, okay? He. That was my last son. And now he's about to die and the city is surrounded. We're all gonna die, okay? Who the fuck cares about anything else? And I'm like, where. What happened to you? [00:33:05] Speaker B: Which is crazy because he's like, he hates his son. Like, he, like, is not shy about it. He's like, I don't like you. And all of a sudden he's like, no, I love my son and I want to die next to my son when he dies. And it's like, no, you don't, bro. Like, where did this come from. [00:33:21] Speaker A: And this is when I realized that I think that the habit that Tolkien had from the Hobbit of having one story completely start to finish in a chapter of like, we are going on a set of adventures is to his detriment sometimes because I'm like, this entire chapter was so long. It was like 35, 40 pages. And it didn't really need to be this long. We could have been intercutting with what was happening with what we're about to get into with five. Like, we really could have split this up and maybe it would have been a little bit more entertaining. But because it's just such a long stretch of action for such a long period of time, it is hard to comprehend. [00:33:57] Speaker B: And this is when we start doing the time jumps. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:00] Speaker B: And that made it a little confusing for me too, because we time jump back to like some other event that happened and we'd like catch up with that and then it would catch up to real time by the end of the chapter. And then we time jump back again. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Yes. So confusing. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Part of the reason why my brain hurts. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Okay, so now we're on chapter five, the Ride of Rohiri. Not sure. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Halfway through, finally. [00:34:22] Speaker A: Halfway through. Yeah. Because basically by the time we get to the end of chapter four, we're halfway through this half of the book. And that's ridiculous considering that there's six more chapters on this half. Okay, again, we are with Mary, who it's been a couple days, but they're still not to where they need to be. So again we're going backwards in time. And nobody in the company that he's with because he's with whoever Irwin is pretending to be. I forgot the name Dirnhelm because he's with Dirnhelm. And it seems like Durnhelm knows the company commander. Obviously this person knows that it's Irwin because this is the only person that she talks to. And so they've decided that they're just going to stay out of the way. So nobody talks to Mary. And that makes it really sad and lonely, which is very sad because he's just like, I really want to see Pippin again. I really just want to talk to somebody. [00:35:06] Speaker B: He's just a little guy. [00:35:09] Speaker A: He's just a sad little guy who doesn't really want to be riding into a war zone. But he's going to. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Hey. And he proves himself. Okay? [00:35:19] Speaker A: He does prove himself. You're right. So some wild men in this area of the forest come to King Theoden and they tell him that There's a secret road that they have kept hidden everybody for a really long time. They're the only ones who remember it. And so they can take them there in order to get past the orcs that are on all the roads that are surrounding the city. And so in exchange, they have to agree to never fight the wildmen for sport again. Which I'm like, bro, all they ask because they're like, are you gonna fight with us? And they're like, no, it's really not our deal. Like, please, instead of giving us any type of reward or jewelry for getting into this patch, just don't hunt us for sports. Is that too much to ask? [00:36:04] Speaker B: Maybe. Don't be a dick. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So they agree. Good for them. That's the lowest bar they could clear. But they cleared it. Then they go through the path and Durnhelm, who Mary is still riding with, breaks the rank of the company that she's in. And she decides that. I'm sorry, I'm using she pronouns because I know it's Erwin, but they. He breaks wit rank and goes close to the king because obviously he wants to be. She wants to be close to her. Is it his. Her uncle? Like, they're not. They're related, but she's not his daughter. Because they keep saying, like, they love you like a daughter. Theoden and Irwin. [00:36:41] Speaker B: Oh, uncle. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So she wants to be close to her uncle. And obviously she wants to protect her uncle. So she decides that she's going to ride next to her uncle. And so Mary is still on the back of her horse this whole time. And then they go through the path and they feel that the winds change for the better. And there's a flash of light. And this is obviously when Gandalf is doing his stop against Nazgul. And then this is when they decide that they're going to charge and the horns blow for Gandalf to get his help in return. [00:37:12] Speaker B: I love how you're like, this is obviously when Gandalf's doing this. Like, that was not obvious to me. But okay. [00:37:20] Speaker A: I just assumed. Because what else would it be? Like, where would the flash of light come from? I think I assumed it was from what he was doing with Nazgul and the Dark Rider. [00:37:26] Speaker B: Bro, this the chapter you're reading right now? Don't remember any of it. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And the only notes I have for this chapter are secret tunnel, secret tunnel through the mountain. Secret, secret, secret, secret tunnel. And I know technically that the Path of the Dead was actually a secret tunnel through the mountains. And one I didn't think of that until this chapter. And so I feel like it was disingenuous to actually put it at the Paths of the Dead chapter when it was a secret tunnel, even though this is technically just a path through the forest rather than a secret tunnel. But they sting when they ride into battle, so I feel like it's more fitting here. [00:38:07] Speaker B: Okay, I'll agree with you that, dude. 90% of Tolkien's books are going on a secret tunnel, so it's so true. [00:38:14] Speaker A: I don't know why I didn't think about it before. [00:38:16] Speaker B: They're all secret tunnels, no matter what. The main plot point is a secret tunnel. [00:38:21] Speaker A: You're right. Through the mountain. Secret, secret, secret, secret tunnel. [00:38:28] Speaker B: Okay, this next chapter is a lot. So then Theoden's horse is hit with a poison dart as he rides into battle, which causes his horse to fall, crushing him underneath her. Nazgul gets closer. Everyone flees, but. But of course, our lady, which is still parading as a soldier man, and Mary, they're both thrown from the horse, but are perfectly fine. Mary goes up to the king because he's, like, trying to check on him, and freaking Eowyn. She's like, going up to the king, and he's like, yo, back up. And she's like, excuse me, that's my kin right there. And he's like, but we were having a moment. Like, you just kind of ruined it, but whatever. I'm sorry. I thought that was funny. Then the soldier that Mary's riding with, which is our girl, challenges the black Captain. And the black Captain's like, no man can kill me. And she goes, I'm not a man. The whole moment you were pointing out, honestly, makes sense right now, honestly. But it did it to me in the beginning. Okay. She actually reveals that she's been Eoin this whole time. Nazgul tries to go after her. She strikes down the Ring Wraith that he was riding on with a single blow. Then he goes after her himself, shattering her shield and her arm. So now she's injured and on the floor. Mary sneaks up behind him before he can strike her again and stabs him through the leg. Saved her life, let's be honest here. Yeah, this is what makes him a hero. And his whole life is now accumulated to this moment. She slashes at Nazgul's face with her sword. The sword shatters on impact. Finally, he's dead. And she collapses there. Mary thinks she's dead, so he goes to the king, who's still barely alive. He names the prince as his successor and wishes he could see Iroin again. And then Mary, this whole time is like, you. [00:40:38] Speaker A: You can. [00:40:39] Speaker B: But it's fine, it's fine. We're not gonna go through it right now. I. I don't have time to explain. Then the prince rides up in the moment. His name is Iramer, in case you're wondering. I don't like saying that name. I'm pretty sure I'm saying it wrong. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Me too. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Even Iroin. I'm like. I feel like every single time I say it's wrong, but. Okay. [00:41:00] Speaker B: And then he rides up and he has. Tries to have a moment with the king, but then he sees his sister and he assumes his sister is dead because she's, like, collapsed on the floor. And then he's upset and he sets off to attack somebody else. But both Theoden and Eowyn's bodies are then carried into the city to be burned. But then the prince, some other prince, Prince Irma Hill, tells them that she's actually not dead yet. Guys, hold on, hold on. She's not dead. [00:41:32] Speaker A: Do not burn. She's like, this is another care of your situation. We do not need this. [00:41:37] Speaker B: We need to, like, check who we're trying to burn. Because they're dead. Because this is not the first time they've gotten it wrong in this. This part of the book alone. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Exactly. Okay. [00:41:51] Speaker B: Concerned. The next fight goes really badly, especially since the Prince Iramer is in his right mind. He sees black ships coming and assumes it's from the enemy. But it's actually Aragorn with all the Rangers of the north and reinforcements that they need. And finally, by the end of this chapter, they say all the foe are dead and no one knows the count of the dead on either side. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So now we're at seven. The Pyre of Denethor. And honestly, at the name of this chapter, I receded. I was ready for whatever this is going to be. I knew it was going to be entertaining. This is probably one of my favorite chapters. It goes off the walls. It's bananas. We're with Pip again, right as Gandalf. Right as Nazgul leaves him. Because Nazgul, when the sword, the horn blew, obviously, he went and fought Eowyn and everything. And so when the horn blew, he left. And so Gandh was about to go after him, but then Pip runs up to him and is like, hey, I really need your help with Faramir and Denethor. And he's like, okay, but a lot of People are going to die if I don't follow this guy. And he's like, well, Faramir is about to die, and there's nobody else I can get. So he's like, okay, I guess people are going to die. And he goes to Faramir, and they reach the House of the Lords and they find that Bergamond, the captain from before, is against multiple servants because he's trying to hold the door against them because they're trying to bring Denethor all the things to actually light the pyre on fire and give him oil and give him wood and everything. And Bergamot is trying to prevent that. And Gandalf comes in, is like, what the fuck are you guys doing? Basically, it's like. [00:43:25] Speaker B: Like, I don't want to deal with this right now. [00:43:27] Speaker A: You gotta go. And that's when Denethor comes out of the. The back house and has his sword with him. And he's about to charge, and then Gandalf just yeets it out of his hand and is like, take me to Faramir. And he's like, he already died. I already burned him. But they brush past him, and Faram is just laying there, and he's not dead yet. So Gandalf picks him up. And Pippin is actually pretty impressed by Gandalf's strength. He's like, oh, damn, you actually were able to pick him up, Gandalf. I was not expecting that. And so Gandalf carries him out and Denethor is just crying and he's protesting. He's like, please give me back my son. And Gandalf basically is like, you don't have any authority over his death, okay? Just because you want to die doesn't mean that he has to die. And this is when Denflore laughs at him, shows that he actually has a planeteer. It's showed a couple times in the book. I don't know how to pronounce this, but basically it's like another storm of Ornthak which can communicate with Sauron and it can also give you visions. So he says that he's been using it to see visions of the future. Kind of like how Aragorn saw what was happening to Minas Turith. But so he saw in his visions that there's going to be black shits of the enemy coming and that he would be replaced as ruler and that he was going to be overthrown and that Aragorn was going to come and everything. But he also thought the black ships were from the enemy. And then he tries to grab Faramir one more time before grabbing a torch from a servant and then going into the building and setting himself on fire on the pyre. And he just lost his mind. [00:44:58] Speaker B: Burns to death. I literally, at this point, I stopped reading my book. I set it down in my lap. I turned over to Sid and I said, do you know who Dena Thor is? And he's like, dina Thor, the Lord Dina Thor Farmir's father? And I was like, oh, oh, so you do? And he was like, I don't want to spoil it, but he's kind of a dick. And I was like, oh, he just tried to murder his son who wasn't dead, and light him on fire. He's a son of a. He's a pussy. And I was so upset, and I was, like, yelling. And Sid was like, okay, bro, I'm sorry. He's actually, I don't want to spoil it. And I don't really know what parts you know and what parts you don't, but I'm just gonna say he's a dick. I was like, I've realized. Thank you. [00:45:57] Speaker A: I mean, I wonder if there is anything more for Denethor. I don't think so. [00:46:02] Speaker B: I wouldn't think so either. But who knows? Who knows? You could be like, secretly, denethor did this earlier and really fuck things up. [00:46:12] Speaker A: True, true, true. So they carry Faramir away to the house of healing. And right before they leave, Gandalf is like, hey, you guys were taking orders from your lord. And I get that. So I'm not gonna blame you for what happened here. But just think about your actions a little bit next time. Because Faramir almost died. And the only reason he didn't was because of this guy over here. [00:46:33] Speaker B: And he didn't listen. [00:46:36] Speaker A: He didn't listen to his orders. He left rank. He. He left when he wasn't supposed to. Okay? And that's the only reason why Faramir is alive today. And you guys should be thanking him. On your knees. Okay? So do better next time. And then they leave. And this is when they also hear the Nazgul's defeat in the distance from. From Erwin and Merry. And it kind of renews their hope. But Gandalf is still on the down. He's like, dang. I'm just so upset about all of that because I thought that Denethor had a stone, but now that I actually know that Denethor had a stone, I know that it corrupted him because he was probably looking in it all the time to try and Figure out, like, how to save the city. But I know that Sauron probably corrupted him and was able to find out the passwords to the gates and everything. And so that's why it was so easy for them to get in here. And, like, so he really it up, even though he wasn't trying to. But, like, damn, he really things up. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Maybe that was it. [00:47:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And I really couldn't believe that he died that way. But then again, if he was using this stone and his mind actually broke, then I guess it makes sense that he's like, our city is gonna burn. I might as well burn prematurely so that they don't do it for me, I guess. [00:47:54] Speaker B: Yeah, whatever. I don't care. That guy's the worst. The worst. At this point, I was like, literally, it's been four chapters since I thought we were going to get that reunion and it still hasn't happened. And I'm kind of upset about it. But then I started the next chapter and it, like, happened immediately. So this next chapter, Pippin finds Mary. And Mary basically came in from the battle and he got, like, lost in these tunnels. Pippin had to go find him because Gandalf was like, hey, you might want to go find this guy. But he can't really help him. And he's. He's, like, basically about to pass out. He's sick, he's hurt. [00:48:40] Speaker A: He's. [00:48:40] Speaker B: He's waddling through these tunnels and Pippin can't carry him. So they find somebody. They basically is like, hey, go tell all these healers that we're down here. Someone can come help. Gandalf is the one who actually comes and helps. He carries Mary up to the healer's ward. Aragorn is camping out at the gates of Gondor. During this time, Iramer finds out that it's his sister is still alive. So then they're like, all right. Aragorn is like, I'm not going to claim this throne until everything with Mordor is done. So then he's like, all right, I'm just going to be here as an advisor to Gandalf. But Gandalf's actually the guy in charge right now. So once that's established, they go to the healer's ward. A nurse says that there used to be a legend that the hands of a king are the hands of a healer. And we find out that that legend is actually about Aragorn because he kind of becomes a healer in this moment, which I like. For me, this came out of nowhere. Okay? [00:49:38] Speaker A: They sort of established that Aragorn knows how to do things because when they're on the road with Frodo, he's the one who. After he gets hit in the arrow or whatever happens with what happens in the first Black Knight thing that they have and then he gets hit and then he can't use his arm for a while. That's basically what's happening with Mary right now. He does do whatever he learned from Elrond and is able to put a pulse on it and make it make him actually reach Elrond. But they do have to have the Elf healers heal him. So it's like he has some healing and he's a little bit more healing than normal. But they were already saying that this house of healing, they're great healers and that nobody in the city ever dies from disease. They only ever died from old age because they've already eradicated most of the disease in the city. The only thing that people ever die from is from this darkness that is from Mordor. [00:50:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Confusing. [00:50:27] Speaker A: So, right. [00:50:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:50:29] Speaker A: It's like a legend. It's like a prophecy. It's like both. It's like they say that kings can do it, but then it turns out it's just a prophecy about the person that's here today. [00:50:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is Aragorn. So he's like, kind of this healer, this magical guy right now. He's, like, calling for these herbs. They finally get the herbs, and he's able to wake up Faramir with them. And immediately Faramir is like, all right, Aragorn is the king. Let's move on. Let's move on with our lives. So Faramir's now fine. And then Aragorn tends to. Iroin. Now she's fine. And then he tends to marry. And I actually missed this part. They both wake up when he kisses them. [00:51:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:51:12] Speaker B: I, like, thought it was like a hand gift. [00:51:14] Speaker A: He, like, rubs, like, his hands on their body and he does, like, healing, whatever. But he, like, also, in the end is like, kiss you on the forehead. [00:51:23] Speaker B: Once Mary wakes up. He's like, hey, I need food and a pipe. And then he gets all in his feelings and he's like, actually, I don't want a pipe. Because when the king died, he said that he. He wanted to smoke a pipe with me and, like, learn about it. So now every time I think of a pipe, I'm gonna think of the king, so I'm not gonna smoke ever again. [00:51:39] Speaker A: And I was like, that's actually so cute. And I didn't catch that. [00:51:43] Speaker B: I was like, that's adorable. But then Aragorn's like, actually, you should smoke so that every time you smoke, you think of him because, like, he's a good king. You should think of him. And I was like, that's also adorable. And then they go off on this side tangent about getting herbs. And Aragorn kind of becomes a little grumpy and pissy. And they're like, okay, we're not joking around with Aragorn anymore, okay? Aragorn's throughout the city healing as many people as he can. Rumors begin to fly around about the King of Gondor walking among them and healing people. And the healer's like, this is our king. [00:52:18] Speaker A: The. [00:52:19] Speaker B: The prophecy is true. And it. It kind of ends on a happy note. And I feel like this is where we start. Like, this feels like a resolution of a book for me. Yeah, we're not through the book. We still have a whole nother, you know, quote unquote, book six with Sam and Frodo that we have to get their update. But, like, they're kind of like wrapping all this up, which felt a little weird. [00:52:46] Speaker A: It does feel a little weird, especially because I feel like they should all come together in the end at some point. And this feels like we're wrapping up all of this side of the characters. I'm like, no, no, no, no. They have to come back together to wrap up all together. [00:52:56] Speaker B: Not right now saying if it feels weird. [00:53:00] Speaker A: And the only thing I was thinking on this whole time was that I really hope that Legolas and Gimli are fine because we haven't heard about them by name in a couple chapters. And I'm like, I really hope that Tolkien didn't do something where he's like, feeling, healing. He's like, so they actually died off screen. You didn't see them, but they died in the battle. And it was really great, but they died. And I was like, if you do that, Tolkien, I'm gonna kill you. [00:53:23] Speaker B: See, that's exactly how I feel. But instead of Gimli and Legolas, I feel like that's what he's going to do with Mary and Pippin. And I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. [00:53:33] Speaker A: I'm like, you better once. Why wouldn't he do it again? [00:53:36] Speaker B: You better not kill off these hobbits. I swear to God, because they're like the fun antidote. Like, feeling keely were the fun antidote. They're the fun antidote for me. And I swear to God, if we kill them off, just because they're the fun antidote. I'm going to have a problem. [00:53:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:51] Speaker B: Anyway, continue. [00:53:53] Speaker A: All right, so we get to the last debate, which is chapter nine. Legolas and Gimli find Mary and Pippin and they're like, oh, my gosh, guys, how's it been? What's going on? They go into the House of Healing and Merry and Pippin ask Legolas and Gimli what happened and how they took their journey. And Gimli doesn't really want to talk about anything that happened, but Legolas describes everything. Basically, he gives him the rundown after they left the path with all of the many dead. They led them to the Great river where they took out a bunch of army, enemy army ships that were there, apparently, that were about to come down to Gondor from the north, and they took them all out. And this is why it took them so long, because they were fighting this battle and a lot of people from the enemy ships just jumped into the sea when they saw all of the Dead that were fighting them. And so, because they technically already fought an army of Mordor, Aragorn releases the dead and lets them go back. And he's. Now you're confirmed. You're good. Like, that's fine. Just one battle. He's. He's fine. Which is why the Dead are not actually in Minas Turret. So then he's, like, gathers the local men that are in the north instead and is like, hey, we need to defend Minas Turret. And now that we've taken care of all these bad guys, now you guys can come with us. And so then they take the bad guy ships and they decide to go on to Minas Turreth. I guess I should just call it Gondor. That's so much simpler. And then as they're swapping stories and everything, now we're with Aragorn in the meeting in his tent. He has a tent in his meeting outside the city and they're talking to all the captains and everything. And Gandalf is telling him about, like, how the worst of the enemy's army is yet to come and how there's so many more people that are in Mordor and this is just the first wave. And we really barely. We barely won this time, guys. And it's. It's gonna be really when they come again. So we should probably just go directly to them that way because we know that Frodo is already in the vicinity of Mordor. He's probably in Mordor by now, if everything that Faramir told us is true. We should technically already been in Mordor, so we should distract the enemy as much as possible so we're gonna actually march on the enemy in order to get his mind away from what Frodo could be doing. Even though they're pretty sure it's going to be a trap. They're just like, this is what we're gonna do. And hopefully it does something against him because basically we're gonna lose anyway if we can't destroy this Ring. He's already coming after us now, and he doesn't have the Ring. So once he gets the Ring, he's gonna be unstoppable. So we just need to go and try and stop him. And all the captains agree to go on the offensive even though it's probably gonna be a trap. And they gather about 7,000 men altogether. And this is not very many, considering that there is 6,000 from Rohan. And now with everybody of Aragorn's men and all the Rohan people, we only have 7,000. Our numbers aren't doing very well. [00:56:48] Speaker B: I was like, this last battle is going to be a diversion. It's a diversion. I love that audio. Do you even know what I'm talking about? [00:57:03] Speaker A: No. [00:57:03] Speaker B: You look lost. [00:57:05] Speaker A: I am very lost. [00:57:06] Speaker B: That audio is so funny to me. It's a diversion. Okay, I'm done. As they're, like, about to leave for this last battle, Aragorn is like, all right, Mary, this is it. You're getting benched. Unfortunately, you cannot continue fighting. You're injured. And he's, like, really sad about it, especially since Pippin is still going to battle with them. And this is when I said, if Tolkien. Because this is the point where he's like, oh, Pippin's leaving to go to battle. And I'm very sad. What if he never comes back? And I said, if Tolkien kills off Pippin, I'm gonna go to war myself. I don't care if he's already dead. It's not okay. [00:57:45] Speaker A: I don't think they will. I don't think he will. I honestly don't think he will. [00:57:48] Speaker B: You say that, and then the end of this chapter happens. [00:57:52] Speaker A: And again, I think it alludes to the fact that he was just knocked out. [00:57:56] Speaker B: He better be. Anyway, as we start our march towards Mordor, we have men send word to the enemies that the king of Elessar is coming. They dramatically arrive at the Black Gate and demand that Sauron surrender. He dramatically opens the gate with drums beating and this ambassador shows up. He keeps talking. He talks like Shakespeare. So it was a little Hard for me to, like, follow, like, dost thou accept the terms of the thousand cream? [00:58:30] Speaker A: I was like, okay, Mouth here, I feel like, lives up to his name of being Mouth, because, yeah, that's what he's called. He's called the Mouth of Sauron. And I was like, in all of my notes, I just wrote Mouth because it just fits him so well. [00:58:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll agree. [00:58:44] Speaker A: He's very. [00:58:45] Speaker B: I just called him the Ambassador because they referred to him as the Ambassador. [00:58:51] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. He's a little hard to understand. He's very uppity. [00:58:54] Speaker B: He's talking like Shakespeare and he's just insulting everyone. He's. He's just ripping into every single person in front of him. Aragorn. Gandalf doesn't care. You're both pathetic. And then he's like, I have a gift for you, actually. And he reveals that he has the cloak of Frodo and Sam's short sword. And I think one other thing, it was like somebody's jacket. [00:59:18] Speaker A: I thought it was like a gem. I thought it was like his brooch and his cloak and then his short sword. So, like the. The brooch. The brooch to the jacket. But I don't know. [00:59:29] Speaker B: I don't know. I remember I didn't write it down. And then I regretted it when I read it again, when they said they had three items, but, oh, well, they have three items of Frodo and Sam's. And he refers to them specific, specifically as spies, which gave me a little hope. A little. Because he doesn't know. But also, does he actually have them? Because he only has their cloak. So are they actually. [00:59:57] Speaker A: And also, the way that he was wording this, I think he only thinks it's one person. [01:00:01] Speaker B: I also agree. So. But that's not something that we get the answer to in this chapter. [01:00:08] Speaker A: Like, we know that one is Frodo's and one is Sans, but he doesn't know that one is Frodo and one is Sam's. He thinks that they're from the same. [01:00:15] Speaker B: Person and keeps saying, why send me this spy? So then he says, so obviously I have your spies and you can take our offer or we can kill them. And Gandalf's like, okay, what's this offer? And he's like, yeah, basically, I want you to never set war upon us again and you're basically going to live as our slaves and Sauron gets to rule this part of the. The world. And Gandalf's like, actually, I think the fuck not. But show us the guys. So we even know that they're alive. And he was like, actually, no, I'm upset that you didn't think that was reasonable. And I'm pretty angry, so you're not gonna get to see your guys. And I was like, oh, who thought. Who thought that was reasonable? [01:01:09] Speaker A: Because he. [01:01:10] Speaker B: He even says in the book, like, he's, like, upset that he didn't agree to those terms, but also, I think. [01:01:17] Speaker A: It'S a little bit shocked of, like, what do you know? Why would you not be taking this deal? Like, there's nothing that you're gonna get, so what do you know that I don't know? [01:01:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. Also, he's shocked that he wouldn't have traded that for one guy. [01:01:34] Speaker A: Well, they're like, he must be important if you sent him to us as a spy. [01:01:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And then, like, he was like. Based on your reaction, he actually is important. But, like, at the same time, it's like, okay, he can be my best friend, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna not rage war against you. [01:01:50] Speaker A: That's true. [01:01:51] Speaker B: I said rage war against you, wage war. [01:01:55] Speaker A: I also feel like this goes back to the time that this is written in, where war is fought like gentlemen, where if there's a deal that is struck, you stick to the deal. So they come here and they're like, hey, we need to get justice for what you did to our city. Like, they come and they demand an emissary. They demand to talk about it. They don't necessarily start, like, waging war automatically. That's what bad people do. So. [01:02:22] Speaker B: Well, after we talk to the ambassador, they start to wage war. I swear to God. And immediately they're surrounded. They realize this is the trap that he was trying to set, but we're still gonna fight through. And everybody's fighting. And basically the next thing that happens is Pippin is now sad that Mary isn't there in the middle of this random battle. Not random. It's not a random battle. But the fact that we're looking into Pippin is kind of random anyway. He's sad. Mary's not there, but he's still fighting. And he kills some orcs, and then one that he had stabbed falls on him. And as he's fading away, he hears in the distance, the Eagles are coming. The eagles are coming. And he's like, ah, the eagles. He's like, oh, Bilbo. I remember that from his story. And then he fades. And that's all that is. And that's the end of that. And I said, I swear to God, he better be alive and he better live throughout this rest of the book because I'm gonna be upset if he's. [01:03:29] Speaker A: Not considering he just passed out. Like I said, I think it is one of those things where it's a parallel to what happened with Bilbo in his battle where he was just kind of there and then he accidentally got sat on and then he was just out for the rest of the battle and he comes through and he's like, wait, wait, wait. What happened? What happened? We won. Okay, okay. When he was invisible. [01:03:47] Speaker B: Actually, it took me a second to remember that. But you're right. [01:03:53] Speaker A: So that's why I thought it was like a callback to, like, oh, the eagles are coming. And he was like, oh, this is so much like what happened with Bilbo. That's so funny. Then no way that eagles would actually come. [01:04:03] Speaker B: And that's where we leave off. My conclusion is that I'm upset we didn't get at least one Sam and Frodo update because last time we already knew what they were doing. And that was our last update. And I actually thought that this book was gonna be super, super long, like, even longer than it already was. And that it was gonna be focused on battle and constant battle. But in short, it's actually kind of like a lot of politics and dynamics that I wasn't really expecting. Like, there's a lot of back and forth, politics wise. I didn't realize Pippin and Mary got separated at any point. And it kind of actually made me, like, super sad for them when they were not together. So I'm happy they got back together, but now I'm super sad that they're not together anymore. So we'll see how that works out. And I definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely needed more Legolas and Gimli content because we got, like, two mentions of them. [01:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it was nothing. I feel like this book had a very weird timeline. And like I said, everything that we knew that happened with Sam and Frodo happened from our last book. So it was very hard. Especially because we are not reading this continuously. It is very hard to be like, wait, I know what's happening. Oh, wait, this connects to this. Oh, wait, I did know that part. Oh, wait, maybe I did. No history of that. Did I know that or did I not? And so it makes it a little bit harder. And yeah, I thought we would maybe get at least one Frodo and Sam chapter. Because I think by the time we get to the end of this part, we have gone a little bit past where we are with Sam and Frodo, but honestly, who knows? Maybe we're not. Yeah, I assume that in the next part they're going to destroy the Ring, because that's the only thing that I know happens. [01:05:56] Speaker B: Spoiler alert. [01:05:58] Speaker A: Sorry. Spoiler alert. For the next book. The only thing that I know that happens. Like, literally the one thing that I know that happens is we go to Mount Doom and I know who puts the ring in Mount Doom, and that's it. [01:06:10] Speaker B: What do I know about the next book? I know the ring gets destroyed and they get to go home eventually, but I don't know anything other than that. So I know the ending, which sucks, but at the same time, like, I have no idea how we get there. [01:06:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I know that they get to go home eventually. I ask once more, honestly, is Sauron corporeal? Does he have an actual form? Are we able to fight him? Literally? Because I keep thinking that we are meeting him and it's just like other emissaries, other lords, other princes, other lieutenants of his that are coming. And I'm like, does he have a body or not? Is he just an eye? Are we going to be able to actually defeat him? How do we defeat him once this ring is destroyed? I have so many questions about how this is going to end. [01:06:52] Speaker B: The only thing that I do know is that he has to have a body. At least in the movies, he has a body. But if he didn't have a body in the books, why would he have a body in the movies, you know? Like, I feel like that's a very important part that you wouldn't get wrong. [01:07:07] Speaker A: Also, I feel like when we do meet him, we're going to defeat him in that same chapter, because that feels like it's Tolkien's MO of like, we're setting up that we're going to defeat him. So we meet him and then we defeat him. Like, it's a chapter, but it's like, it all happened in one chapter. [01:07:21] Speaker B: I completely agree with that. [01:07:23] Speaker A: And I kind of hate that. Honestly, I kind of hate it. And that's one chapter. I get one chapter. I get that as a long chapter. But you're not gonna, like, let me see him a couple times. [01:07:32] Speaker B: Like, we built up four different books to get here, and we get to see him in one chapter is what you're feeling. And I get that. What was I gonna say? Oh, I feel like this next book is kind of gonna. It's gonna be slow because it's just Sam and Frodo. [01:07:46] Speaker A: Do you think it'll just be Sam and Frodo? [01:07:48] Speaker B: I know. At least the first four chapters are going to be just Sam and Frodo. [01:07:53] Speaker A: Okay. [01:07:54] Speaker B: At least. Like that's just his style. Like he only focuses on like one part of the story. Right? [01:08:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:03] Speaker B: That's what he does. So I. I'm really nervous about coming together because I. I have a bad feeling about not really getting a reunion that we want. [01:08:13] Speaker A: You're right. Because as far as I know. No. None of the people that are here are at Mount Doom. Right. They never get close enough. It's just Frodo and other people who will not be mentioned. But not any of the people that are in this side of the story obviously. So we do need to destroy the Ring. So I guess. Yeah. At least four chapters. Only nine chapters. The next set of book. And so two or three for wrap up. And meeting reunion. Plus I'm pretty sure they also go home. I think it's another thing where they have to like go back to the Shire in order for the story to be ended. [01:08:46] Speaker B: At least two chapters to go home and like wrap that up. And at least four chapters by themselves. So that makes six chapters. And you said there's nine. So we have three chapters that we don't know what's gonna happen. Basically. [01:09:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:03] Speaker B: And if we're gonna get that reunion that we so desperately. At least I so desperately want. But I just. You can't go home without seeing Aragorn again. Come on. [01:09:15] Speaker A: Right. I have to agree. [01:09:17] Speaker B: And Legless and Gimli and what's gonna happen to them? Do we even get their wrap up? I know they've been like slowly kind of planning what they're gonna do when they're done here. But like do we actually get to hear them going and doing what they said they're gonna do? [01:09:30] Speaker A: I don't think so. I feel like that's a no. I do want to say. I really hope. I do think this next chapter. I mean it's gonna be four chapters of them walking again to Mount Doom. Like. I don't know. Yeah. This next half of the book is gonna be kind of boring. But the next half of this book is tiny. [01:09:46] Speaker B: But. [01:09:49] Speaker A: I think that's it. Right? Yep. [01:09:51] Speaker B: Basically we're leaving on. I'm really nervous about this next book. [01:09:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Same. I hope it ends well. [01:09:57] Speaker B: Me too. Okay. I'm done talking to you today. [01:10:01] Speaker A: It.