The Two Towers (Pt. 1)

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to B and C book Club. I'm Kristen. [00:00:03] Speaker B: And I'm Summer. This is the podcast where we bring you all the comfort and gossip of a regular book club. But just between you, me, and her. [00:00:11] Speaker A: And you may be wondering what the B and the C stand for. Well, the B stands for bell tower. [00:00:17] Speaker B: And the C stands for Cucamonga. [00:00:19] Speaker A: Is that a word? [00:00:20] Speaker B: Anyway, how's life going, Kristen? [00:00:23] Speaker A: It's good. I restarted work today, so that's fun. After a little bit of time off, it's always nice to go back when you're bored at home, bored in the house. [00:00:33] Speaker B: And I'm in the house, bored. [00:00:36] Speaker A: What about you? What's been going on? [00:00:38] Speaker B: Oh, what has been going on? I've been seeing family a lot, actually. That's a lie. I saw family one time between then and now, but I'm gonna see them a lot this week. So I'm like. I'm already, like, over family, even though I haven't seen them. But I love them and I'm excited to see them. [00:00:58] Speaker A: We're here to discuss the Two Towers by John Ronald Rule Tolkien. And I'm going to keep saying his full name until I remember what the JRR Mean. [00:01:10] Speaker B: I never want to hear it again. [00:01:11] Speaker A: No. I literally every single time I open up this book and I see this cover and I see JRR and I think in my head, I wonder what that means. I'm going to keep saying it until I don't think that anymore. Because no matter how many times I say it, it doesn't stick. No. [00:01:27] Speaker B: And it doesn't need to. It does not need to. [00:01:30] Speaker A: The reason I said that this kind of leads into what we were talking about before is because we were talking about our books, and we were talking about how your book starts on page 300 and something, and it's because Tolkien wrote this as, like, a continuous story. These three books are supposed to be, like, quote unquote, the same story. They're supposed to be not just like a trilogy, but it was supposed to be basically the same book. Even though there's, like, books in the books, but, like, they're supposed to be read together, which is why this was published in November of 1954, which is the same year that the Fellowship of the Ring came out. So it just came out a couple of months after. [00:02:05] Speaker B: Oh, that's interesting, because, like, you were going through that, and I knew that he wrote it as a whole book. Like, he didn't necessarily write it separate, but I didn't know that he released it separate. [00:02:18] Speaker A: It was released Separately, Huh? [00:02:21] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:02:21] Speaker A: Separately. Fellowship was released July 1954, and two towers was released November 1954. [00:02:30] Speaker B: So, like, what's that, four months apart? [00:02:33] Speaker A: Yes, but then Return of the King was released in October of 1955, the next year. [00:02:41] Speaker B: So, like, a year later. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Almost a year. Yeah. [00:02:44] Speaker B: He did four months and then he did a whole year later. That's crazy. Yeah, considering he, like, wrote them all at the same time. I guess editing does take a while, but, yeah. So he, like. He, like, went to his publisher and he's like, I wrote these two books and I'm writing this third one. It's still going, which is edit, too. [00:03:05] Speaker A: I'm almost done. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I've got these two finished. The Third Coming. [00:03:13] Speaker A: Well, basically, because he wrote the Hobbit a long time before that. Right. And so this entire time he was formulating story. And so, yeah, he was just editing. He was like, I have this much of the story done if you want to keep publishing it. I know it's not done yet, but, like, here you go. [00:03:28] Speaker B: I waited 15 years. I'm not waiting any longer. [00:03:33] Speaker A: He was like, you waited 15 years. What's one more year for the third book? Okay, we need to add hype to this. [00:03:41] Speaker B: I need some momentum going for this third book. I can't write it without it. Okay. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:03:48] Speaker B: All right, so we leave off the Fellowship of the Ring with, like, the peril. Like, Frodo is escaping by himself. Sam finds him, he gets on the boat, they leave. The orcs were attacking. It was like, chaos. And then they were like, peace out. And that's it. That's how we leave. So when we come back to this book, it's just chaos. [00:04:12] Speaker A: Mm. I'm here for it immediately. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Not a second has gone by. [00:04:17] Speaker A: No, we're actually. We are, like, back 10 minutes. Because we're in Aragorn's POV and he's still looking for Frodo and he hasn't figured out that Sam has left him yet. [00:04:27] Speaker B: Exactly. And then he's, like, still looking, and he hears Boromir's horn and goes and finds Boromir. And Boromir is like, hey, I tried to take the ring. I'm super sorry. I'm dying. Peace out. And then he's dead, Just like that. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Dies, just like you're taking out a bunch of Orcs and accidentally. And accidentally letting Marion Pippen get taken. But it's fine. He did confess all his deeds. And I was shocked that he confessed to deeds, but I was like, well, you died, so I guess it doesn't matter anyway. [00:05:02] Speaker B: I mean, I guess that's true. I will say I was expecting his death because he dies at the end of the first movie. [00:05:10] Speaker A: Oh, does he? [00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And I was complaining to Sid. I was like, excuse me, he's not dead. [00:05:17] Speaker A: That's a spoiler. [00:05:18] Speaker B: That is a spoiler. But I guess they were like, we're not paying this guy for another movie. We better just kill him off now. [00:05:24] Speaker A: They're like, it's one chapter, guys. Come on. [00:05:27] Speaker B: It's three minutes into the next movie. We'd have to pay him for a whole new movie. [00:05:34] Speaker A: That's so funny. [00:05:36] Speaker B: But he is a famous actor for literally dying. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. He does that a lot. He did that on Game of Thrones, too. Yes. He did the spoilers for Game of Thrones a million years ago. [00:05:51] Speaker B: Nobody even knows who we're talking about. What are you talking about a million years ago? [00:05:59] Speaker A: It was like, 2010. [00:06:01] Speaker B: It's very relevant now. Okay. Kristen, are you watching House of Dragons? [00:06:05] Speaker A: I just watched the finale. [00:06:07] Speaker B: I also just watched the finale and I was upset. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Anywho. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Anywho. Sorry, I'm interrupting a lot today. Continue. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Get off, George R.R. martin. Okay, we're on whatever. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Tolkien J.R.R. [00:06:27] Speaker B: What does it stand for? [00:06:30] Speaker A: John Ronald Rao Tolkien. I did that off the top of my head. Okay, guys, just wanted to let you. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Know I'm proud of you. [00:06:38] Speaker A: Thanks. [00:06:39] Speaker B: I don't even know where we left off. So Mary and Pippin are taken. We've got Gimli and Legolas there with Aragorn. They're like, what's going on? We gotta go find these hobbits. Or do we follow Sam and Frodo? And then Aragorn's like, look, our part with Sam and Frodo is done. We're out of here. We gotta go find the other hobbits we came with. We owe them. So they decide to go and follow the orcs who took Marion Pippin, which I'm like, 100% team Marion Pippen right now. [00:07:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:16] Speaker B: By the end of this book. Well, I mean, it's technically halfway between two towers, but it's book three and book four. [00:07:24] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:25] Speaker B: But by the end, I'm like, I love Marian Pippen so much. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Me, too. I liked this book so much more than the last one. It is so much more entertaining. I understand these characters so much more. I feel like I know them so much better. I feel like I get their personality so much more. It's just so much more entertaining. Didn't know that this was written as one Story, but obviously I thought it was written as one story because it's a trilogy, but I didn't know that it was meant to be, like, kind of consumed as one story. And now having the first book be all exposition and all set up once we finish, like, the first half of the first book, that it was going to, like, start picking up, but it didn't, because technically, that's still all the first part. This is all the middle, and then we get all of the ends. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess that's a good way to look at it. The first book, the Fellowship of the Ring, was just the beginning, and now we're in the middle of it. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:08:18] Speaker B: It's definitely easier to think of the book that way, in terms of, like, reading. So you're not, like, expecting something and just, like, dragging on, dragging your feet, trying to get there. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Right? Yeah, that's where I'm at in this. But also, by the end of this book, I was like, but what are we doing? [00:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah, but so if you hear me fangirling over Marion Pippin, I mean, they deserve it. So. [00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then Bar Mirror also gets a burial in the river, and they do, like, a really long scene about it. And I don't understand why I was like, you found out he was a traitor, Basically. [00:09:00] Speaker B: I will say I was shocked at how long we focused on Boromir's death and, like, burial and, like, honoring him, because I was like, he died in, like, two seconds. But then we spend the whole chapter, like, being, oh, but he helped us and he needs this good burial and we'll send him down the river. And I was like, he doesn't deserve. But whatever. I mean, I guess you guys liked him, I suppose. [00:09:28] Speaker A: I'm like, you guys weren't even together for very long. [00:09:31] Speaker B: If we weren't doing this for the podcast, I would not be reading these as thoroughly, at least as I am, because I would have. It would have all been brain rotted outside of my head by now. [00:09:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:42] Speaker B: Like, it would have gone in through my eyes and out through wherever it leaves through. When it goes in through your eyes. Rough. Anyway, Boromir is dead. We're not sad. Oh, wait, that's my comments. You said, Boromir's dead now they're going after the orcs. For what reason? For what reason, Kristen? For Mary and Pippen. [00:10:06] Speaker A: I understand that they're going after Mar and Pippen, but it just felt like they were unnecessarily going after them. [00:10:12] Speaker B: What? [00:10:13] Speaker A: I don't know. When I was reading It I was like, so they're just going after them? Well, okay, so they think that they have Mar Pin, but they don't actually know if they have Mar and Pip. And they're like, we're pretty sure they do. Who else could happen? But still, I'm like, I don't know. [00:10:30] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Well, by the end of the book. [00:10:32] Speaker B: Are you glad they went and found them? [00:10:34] Speaker A: I am glad that they went and found them. I just felt like they were on a fruitless mission. And I was like, why are we doing this? Why are you chasing them for no reason? [00:10:42] Speaker B: I guess I can see that. I never questioned it. I said, go, you go get those Hobbits and you bring them home. [00:10:50] Speaker A: I was like, obviously we need to get the Hobbits and who else is going to capture them other than these people? But I don't think that you guys are going to be able to follow the Orcs that way. Like, we need to figure something else out. That was my whole thing was like, why are you following the Orcs? Like, what are you doing that for? Try to figure something else out. Like, I don't know. So there's not a lot of options, I guess. [00:11:09] Speaker B: In the next chapter, the writers of Rohan, we follow the Orcs like they can. They mostly follow the Orcs. They're pretty good at it. They just aren't finally with it because the Orcs just keep going and going and going and our company needs to sleep and rest at times and it keeps putting them further and further behind. They find Pippin's brooch. So they definitely know that Pippin is with the Orcs. So that was a good thing because we got that clue and we still don't really know what's happening with Pippin and Mary. Like, we don't get to see what's like real time happening to them. So we're just kind of following this track. With that, the Orcs are leaving and we run into the writers of Rohan and there is actually like, he like seems mean at first, but then he kind of seems like a nice guy. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Then he gets captured later and everyone's upset about it. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah, well, which they say they already came across the Orcs, that they killed them all. And then our company is like, well, did you see two like men kind of halfling things? And they're like, never seen them, never heard of them. I don't know what you're. You're going on about, but there were no Halflings or Men in that pile. We burned them all and Then that's when we were getting a little confused about where they might be. They, like, exchanged stories a little bit. They find out that Saruman is corrupted and kind of taking over that region and is basically bullying everyone over there. And then Gandalf, they tell the writers that Gandalf is dead. And they're like, yeah, we are not too sad about that. I mean, I liked him, but my boss didn't really like him in the end there and then they're. They continue on their path to just look through the bodies and kind of see where maybe two hobbits might have ran off to. And they end up running into the forest of Fangorn. And Legolas tells the tales of the trees that were alive, which are called Ents. And by the end of the chapter, you know, I'm. I was like, these random men are trusting Strider, which is, like, good for us, but, like, sketchy. They were just like, oh, Strider, you're chill. And then at the end of that chapter, we see an old man who takes, like, the horses and everything. And everybody's, like, being warned about these trees. And I was like, what's going on with the trees? Because everybody's freaking out about these damn trees. And we find out. [00:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:57] Speaker B: Yep. We find out next chapter that they're the ends. [00:14:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:03] Speaker B: And finally we get. We. We time jump a little bit. We time jump back to when the orcs had just taken Marion. Pip. And then we find out what's happening from Pip's perspective that whole time. [00:14:18] Speaker A: And he's with the orcs. And basically, like you said, he remembers what happened. Boromir tried to fight them off and he tried to do the horn, but nobody was able to come and help him in time. So they ended up getting hit in the back of the head and carried off by the orcs. They're in this huge meeting place. They're having, like, a meeting of all the Orcs and where all the different clans are and everything. And Pippin can kind of like get into position and he can hear through the floorboards what they're saying downstairs. And they're all speaking the common ton because the different orcs speak different languages in the different clans. And so they're all speaking the language of the common tongue so he can understand them. It's not like they're speaking the orc language and he can't understand them. So again, they're debating what they should do. And Ogluk is the main guy from the Uruk Hai clan, which is what this whole chapter is named after the Urukai. And so Olga is in charge of them. And he's the one who says that he has to keep the Hobbits from harm. They can't be healed yet. But every other, like, clan there is like, we'll curse them. Curse the Isengarders which are the people that are in Zarman's area. That's Isengard. And so the Isengardeners are like the people from that area, basically. And so it's just these. The Orcs getting mad at each other. [00:15:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And I actually. I found this chapter a little interesting because we got to see kind of like the dynamics between the people who are, like, serving Saruman and the people who are serving Sauron because they're like, do you serve the Eye? And they were like, stressing that. And they were kind of like, bickering between the. The people that served the Eye for Sauron and the ones that solely served Saruman. So I did find that chapter interesting to read, at least for that perspective. [00:16:17] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:17] Speaker B: But then we, like, go on. [00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah. They get into a fight and Pippin just so happens to kind of, like, get himself out. But then because of the fight, they pick him up and they decide that they're gonna, like, go on. Olguk is deciding that he's gonna just march away and get as far away from these people as possible and just, like, do whatever he's decided that he's gonna do. And again, because they are these bad Orcs, they can also walk in the daytime because normally they can't walk in the daytime. And we know that is because of Saruman in the last chapter. He's the one who gave the Orcs this power and corrupted everything, which I don't know if we said after that, they're basically. They go really far away and then they stop and then they get separated by, like, a separate Orc somehow. I know. How does that even happen? And then that Orc gets shot and they're able to use their elf cloaks to hide themselves and then they're able to get away and escape from everybody, basically. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Yep. I'm just gonna agree with that because that's how it happened. I was lost that chapter. I was like. I got through all of the Orcs exchanges and then I like the. [00:17:24] Speaker A: When they were moving from place to place and then this person was going here, and then this person was going here, and then this person was talking to this person. I'm pretty sure what happened was they were with Ook and then the other clan caught up to them and he was like, hey, go find. No, it was like the. One of the guys from the clan caught up to them and I wrote his name down and I can't remember what it is now. Let me see if I can find it. Oh, Ginshuk was the one that was that like took them aside. But I'm pretty sure he was part of like the other Orcs, like the other fraction. And so he found them and then was trying to take them to his faction. And then that's when there was the like writer who just came and shot them. And we don't even know who the writer was. It's just like this random person who ended up shooting him. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:15] Speaker A: At least that I'm aware of. I didn't know if there's. I didn't figure out there was a writer. I didn't see anything. [00:18:21] Speaker B: I didn't either. I just told you. I was lost during that whole. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Oh yeah. And then at the end of that, they basically like they see the fight that happened with the writers and the orcs in the distance that the writers just told Aragorn about, but they don't see the orcs dying. And so they just go on because they're like, we don't know if these people are good or not. Just because they're our enemies enemies doesn't mean they're our friends. And so they just decide to just walk on instead. [00:18:48] Speaker B: Yeah, they make some comment about I don't want to wait and see if they know what we are or mistake us for Orcs. So we're going to get out of here. [00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:59] Speaker B: And then. [00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that they were being resourceful and they like were able to kind of get out of the trap and they're able to like use their stuff that they have in order to actually exit and be able to semi get to safety even if they are just in the forest now randomly. Yeah. And again this is when I was in my notes was pointing out was like, I love that I can get to see everybody individually. Like I'm getting to see Gimli and Legolas and Aragorn individually and I'm getting to see Marin and Mary and Pippin individually. And it is nice for me to be able to slow down and actually get some time with these characters because I do feel like when we are with the Fellowship, even though it's a nice concept and everything, that many characters is a lot to wrap your head around. It's too much happening in the Hobbit where I only remember three of Their names. It's because there's just too many people and they don't actually get enough to differentiate themselves if there's too many people. Agreed. [00:19:53] Speaker B: Especially with the big old Dwarf clan in the Hobbit where we. I mean, we know Bum Burr because he was fat shamed. [00:20:00] Speaker A: Right. And he was fat shamed so often that we made a note to talk about it because it was so often. And so it was like a plot point whenever Bumper would get talked about when he was patching. So it was just like. [00:20:12] Speaker B: That's the only time they talked about him. [00:20:14] Speaker A: Exactly. The only people. The only other people I know are Fili and Keely and. That's it. [00:20:19] Speaker B: And Thorn. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Oh, right. And Thornton. [00:20:22] Speaker B: That's it. That's all I noticed. Well, I mean, I barely even remember Feely and Keeley. [00:20:27] Speaker A: I just remember those because they remind me of Mary and Pippin. And sometimes I accidentally am going to say Feely and Keely instead of Mary and Pippin. [00:20:34] Speaker B: See, that's cute. They do remind me of Mary and Pippin. But I didn't like memorize their names well enough so I wouldn't get them confused because I don't even know their names. I remember them as characters very well because they were the young guys of the group and they got assigned all the young guide tasks. I feel like that was their selling point. [00:20:56] Speaker A: I feel like the Mary and Pippin of the movies are feeling Keely of the Hobbit books, if that makes sense. Definitely. The way they're like jumpy around and jokey and things. [00:21:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. [00:21:14] Speaker A: That's kind of the vibe they actually have. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:17] Speaker A: Anyway, to get off of my hundredth tangent of the night, we are on chapter four. [00:21:25] Speaker B: Yes. Mary and Pippin escape and they go into the forest and they meet an Ent, which is a tree like creature. They kind of described him as like a troll, but then they describe him more as a tree as they go on with the description. And his name is Treebeard and he's very nice. And he is one of the oldest creatures of the forest aligned with Gandalf, which is great for him. I mean, I feel like they didn't say he is necessarily aligned with Gandalf, but he was like, yeah, I like that guy. [00:22:01] Speaker A: And that's when I was like, who doesn't like him? I feel like every single person that we encounter other than the bad guys is like, oop. Gandalf. Great guy. Great guy, Gandalf. You, you know, who, who did you. [00:22:14] Speaker B: Say you were talking to? [00:22:15] Speaker A: Gandalf Ooh, Gandalf. He's a. He's a great guy. Good wizard, you know? Good wizard. And I'm like, where are the other wizards? Who are the other wizards talking to? Because I've never heard them talk. Like, even unbeknownst to anybody, they'll just say their name. And then the other people would be like, great guy, Gandalf. Like, there's nobody that just randomly says a name. They're like, you know who you guys should be talking about? This random wizard. Like, we only ever hear about Gandalf. And I really want to know what made Gandalf so amazing. [00:22:41] Speaker B: And even though the other wizards. [00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah, who are the other wizards? Is there one? That's the lore that I want to know. This is the lore that I want to know. Yes. How many colors are in the council? And is one of them blue? Okay, why is that? Why there can't be a guy of many colors like Saruman wants to be is because that's too much power, because he's taking away all the colors from everybody else. Is that what's actually happening? [00:23:04] Speaker B: That's very much going to be it. [00:23:06] Speaker A: Okay, my other thing is, I don't want to know any of the history of like the land. I want to know about history of specific people. Do you know what I mean? [00:23:17] Speaker B: Give me a Gandalf prequel. [00:23:19] Speaker A: Exactly. Give me the 400 year Gandalf prequel that happened before this where I need to know why Gandalf is making all these friends and doing all these deeds. [00:23:27] Speaker B: For people and why he loves hobbits. [00:23:30] Speaker A: Yeah, why he didn't force. Why he decides that he could just go wander over there and decide that he can pluck one and be like you? We're choosing you today. You're gonna do this for me. [00:23:43] Speaker B: Gandalf. You said you don't know who hates Gandalf. Last chapter, baby. With the company, the writers, they were like, yeah, we. We kind of like Gandalf. My boss currently hates Gandalf, so don't bring him up. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Okay, but we find out later why he hates Gandalf. And it's just because the other guy corrupted him. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Yeah, that's literally it. But then he's like, yeah, but I'm not corrupted. And then we were like, oh, okay, everything's fine now. [00:24:11] Speaker A: And then that was like. Was it that quickly? Did you. That whole thing. Sometimes I read this book and I'm like, was there a spell on him? Because it seemed like everything just lifted and he was like, fine after that or was this just not enough of a fantasy where there was a spell and he kind of. Just. As soon as he was out of his presence, he just. No. Felt his charisma and just was fine. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:31] Speaker A: Because a guy like that. Spoiler alert. [00:24:33] Speaker B: Gamma back. Yeah, that wasn't. We had a. No. [00:24:40] Speaker A: Spoiler alert for this book that we're currently talking about. Gab comes back. He comes back, like, next chapter. I was not expecting it so soon. [00:24:47] Speaker B: He does come back next chapter, but this chapter, we're still on the ends. Okay. [00:24:52] Speaker A: Sorry. [00:24:55] Speaker B: The Ents. Like, basically, they've got. They've got Mar, Pippen, Treebeard. Is like, tell me your story. And then they tell him, and he's like, first of all, I've never heard of hobbits. I'm gonna add you to my song. And he keeps saying that. I think that's adorable. And then he sings it multiple. Multiple times in this book. [00:25:13] Speaker A: That was the one song that I read. [00:25:15] Speaker B: Oh, cute. I read it the last time it was sung because it was. It kept coming up too much. [00:25:22] Speaker A: Yeah, no, no, no. It was the one that was the full one, not. Not everything else. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And then they're telling him the whole story, and he's like, oh, yeah, we gotta have a meeting about this. And he calls all the other ends, and then they go to a council meeting that lasts for, like, three days. [00:25:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, he tells the lore of all the ants, and also the ant wives are no longer there. I guess they lost their ant wives. And the guy's like, oh, man, I'm so sorry. Very lost. And he was like, no, we just lost them. [00:25:49] Speaker B: We literally lost them. Where did they go? [00:25:53] Speaker A: Okay, sure. [00:25:56] Speaker B: Agreed. I thought that was a weird side tangent, but I just wanted to point. [00:26:01] Speaker A: It out because he was like, no, no, no, they're not dead. We just lost them. And now we can't have any babies. And so our race is dying. [00:26:10] Speaker B: I didn't even read it. Like, I just read it like, hey, I can't find my wife, dude. [00:26:16] Speaker A: No, they can't have any ant babies. There's no baby Ents in the forest. Meaning they're all dying. [00:26:21] Speaker B: Oh. [00:26:22] Speaker A: And so this is not helping things. That's why they're so upset about it. Especially because, like, they don't live in a pure place. So they had to go. They went wandering somewhere nicer, and then now they can't find their wives. You're sad. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Is that what you said? [00:26:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Now I'm depressed for the ends. [00:26:40] Speaker A: Um, yeah. But then, like you said, they. They have a meeting and the. The two hobbits, both Mary and Pippin, they get to hang out with Quick Beam because he's like, I make up my mind too much faster than everybody else. I already know what I'm gonna do, so I'm just gonna hang out with you guys. Which means they're ready. [00:26:59] Speaker B: Three days it takes for everybody else to make the decision. It'll take him two. [00:27:04] Speaker A: No. It seemed like everyone started yelling, and then he walked over there and it was like, decision made. I was like, yeah, you were just waiting for everybody else to tell you their decision, but, okay, thanks, Quick Beam. [00:27:14] Speaker B: Yeah, he was kind of funny. He was like, yeah, my name's Quick Beam. Comes quick. And I answered a question before they were even done asking. Like, he literally said that. I thought it was so funny. So now they're with Quick Beam. [00:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And then they. After three days, the Ents decide. Because the reason that the Ents had this whole meeting because they wanted to see if they wanted to align with the writers of Rohan or not. And so at the end of this meeting, they decide that they're going to just go to Isengarden and the Valley of Saruman themselves and just take care of it themselves and not go with anybody else. [00:27:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And then they were like, all right, we're marching on Isengard. Let's go. [00:28:02] Speaker A: Let's go. [00:28:03] Speaker B: Get out of here, guys. And then they just start going. [00:28:05] Speaker A: They just start going. And I was shocked that we were already going to war. I was like, I can't believe so much is already happening. This is like, we're already here. Like, this already seems to be the main thrust of the story. I wasn't sure what exactly what this middle part of the story was going to be, but this seems to be it. We're going to be in war. [00:28:21] Speaker B: Yep. We're at the middle part, baby. Yeah, we're going to war. [00:28:26] Speaker A: My prediction was that it was going to be quick and then they would have to regroup somehow. [00:28:32] Speaker B: See, my prediction is still that they have to regroup, but at the end of the next book, if that makes any sense. The next half of this book. So the end of Two Towers is when I think we'll regroup again. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Well, at 4, I was like, I feel like the battle that the ends are going into, I feel like it'll be very quick. But I thought they were going to lose and then regroup with everybody. And then the end of the book was going to be them taking the entire thing. I did not realize it was going to be by the end of this book, we have already defeated everybody. We've already defeated Saruman. We've already done everything. We're going on to the next. It goes quick. I thought that this was going to be like a whole story arc. And it was only, I guess, technically it was this book, but it wasn't like the entire second, like, book. [00:29:20] Speaker B: Book. Yeah, I have a comment about that. But I'm going to save it for the end. [00:29:23] Speaker A: Okay? [00:29:26] Speaker B: So then after all these Ents just start marching on Isengard, we skip over to the next chapter and we're with Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli again. And it's from Aragorn's POV that we actually get to meet the White Rider, which is the whole purpose of this next chapter. And I know we already said it, but Gandalf's alive. [00:29:48] Speaker A: And were you shocked? Because I remember asking you at the end of the last book and I was like, I feel like Gandalf's coming back. And you're like, he's dead. And I was like, I thought Gandalf was back. Did you know or did. Were you just saying that? [00:30:00] Speaker B: I knew technically. Like, I've seen the movies, obviously, so I know Gandalf comes back. But I always thought it was, like, not Gandalf. Like, it was another guy who just went by Gandalf and looked like Gandalf. Like it was a different person. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, that's how they describe it in the book. Because we get to the point. I even, like, said, so this old man who's introduced this chapter, he's dressed in white and he's just an old man. No one really recognizes him. But then he explains that he is Saruman. And they're like, so you're Saruman? And he was like, but I'm not. I'm also Gandalf. And he goes, but you can call me Gandalf. I go by Gandalf. And then he says, he's only Saruman in the way, or he is Saruman, but in the way that Saruman was meant to be, not the way that he turned out. [00:30:59] Speaker A: Right? [00:30:59] Speaker B: So there was a lot of confusion. Like, that alone was just like, what are you saying? But that's basically what I thought. Like, it's not Gandalf, but it is at the same time. [00:31:09] Speaker A: No, it's Gandalf, but he's transformed into Gandalf the wife. And because Saruman was Saruman the White before, he's saying, I am who Saruman should have Been as a wight. [00:31:21] Speaker B: White wizard. [00:31:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:31:25] Speaker B: But also he said, I'm like, not Gandalf, but I also am, so. [00:31:30] Speaker A: Because he's saying that he died. He died and came back to life. So he's not the same Gandalf that he was before. Part of himself has died, but he is Gandalf because he is risen as Gandalf. But he's not Gandalf. But he is Gandalf because he is Gandalf. And you can call him Gandalf, but he's also not the same Gandalf that he was before because that Gandalf is dead. It died in the pit. But a new Gandalf came out. He was in the dark and the fire or something. Something like that. [00:31:56] Speaker B: I don't know how Tolkien thought this made any sense to anyone, because it doesn't. [00:32:02] Speaker A: I just explained it to you. [00:32:04] Speaker B: No, that didn't make any sense, Kristen. My brain hurts. [00:32:14] Speaker A: Let's see. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Anyway, we're moving on from this chapter because this whole chapter is about, like, Gandalf. [00:32:20] Speaker A: He doesn't. Okay, I'm reading that part. And he doesn't introduce himself as Saruman. And by the time they said, we. [00:32:29] Speaker B: Thought you were Saruman. He says, I am, but I'm not. [00:32:32] Speaker A: Indeed, I am Saruman1. But I'm saying that's not the first thing that he says. The first thing he says is, I'm Gandalf. You. That was the name. I'm Gandalf. Because he's trying to remember himself. He's still learning. This is my thing is I think that whenever he died and he got cleansed or something, he was still remembering who he was. He doesn't specifically know who he was. So he recognizes them, but he doesn't know their name. It's like he's still becoming reborn. And so he. When he is told his name, he's like, gandalf. Yes, I am Gandalf. I remember that was my name. I have been a different person since that time because I'm still remembering myself and I'm still relearning how it is to be a person because I died. But, yes, I am Gandalf as well. I remember being Gandalf. [00:33:12] Speaker B: That makes so much more sense. [00:33:13] Speaker A: And so when they're like, we thought you were Sarman. He was like, well, technically, like, if you want to look at it a certain way, I am on that should. Like the way that Sarman should have been. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it now. [00:33:30] Speaker A: Clicking in this brain Are you just saying that I. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Half and half. Okay, call me creamer. Anyway. [00:33:40] Speaker A: Anyway, Gandalf is back. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Gandalf is back. And Gandalf knows that the Hobbits are safe. But he doesn't say anything else because he doesn't know what's happened to Frodo and Sam. [00:33:52] Speaker A: He didn't even know that Sam was with Frodo. They told him that Sam was with Frodo. And he's like, oh, I'm happy about that. I was like, where is your post? Where are you getting your information from then? [00:34:02] Speaker B: But he knows that the other hobbits are safe. Pippin and Mary. So that's good at least. And then he's like, all right, let's go guys. We've got a king to go see. So off we ride. And we go to the King of the Golden Halls where we get to the gate and the guard speeds in the tongue of Rohan and tells them that they're not going to let them inside. You don't speak our language. We don't like you here. And then Gandalf is like, yeah, you're going to let us in. We're going to get in there. And then obviously they get in. And then they're like, leave your weapons. And that's not happening. For who? Our lovely Strider? Or Aragorn? He was like, hell to the no, Absolutely not. And then Gandalf was like, just do it, dude. And then he's like, all right, good, fine, fine, I'll do it. And then Gimsley's like, well if he's leaving his, I'll just leave my ax. I mean he. It needs company. And then Gandalf has to leave his staff. And he's very upset about that, but he goes anyway. [00:35:00] Speaker A: He doesn't what? He doesn't leave his staff. [00:35:03] Speaker B: Depression. I must have missed that sentence. Look, it says they were like leave your staff. And he was like. [00:35:10] Speaker A: He was like no. And then what happened? He was like, no. And then they're like, it's just his staff. He's an old man. Let him walk. And then the guy was like, I'm letting you have this because I think that you are an upright person who won't use it. And then he immediately uses it. That's how he does the whole shocks in the hall in front of Wormtails. Because he has a staff. [00:35:36] Speaker B: I'm gonna be honest, this chapter was like too much for me. [00:35:39] Speaker A: Okay, where is it? [00:35:40] Speaker B: Hang on. There's a lot of dialogue happening in the chapter. An insane amount of dialogue. Happening in this chapter because you have Wormtail, like just blabbing off and then you have the king blabbing off. Then you have Gandalf blabbing off and it was just so much. [00:35:55] Speaker A: Yeah, you see the part of the veil of the house with Theoden and is not idle talk. Your staff, he said to Gandalf, forgive me, but that too must be left at the doors. Foolishness, said Gandalf. Prudence is one thing, but discourtesy is another. I'm old. If I may not lean on my stick as I go, then I will sit out here until it pleases Theoden to hobble out himself and speak to me. Aragorn laughed. Every man has something too dear to trust to another. But would you part an old man from his support court? Come on, Will you not let us enter? The staff in the hand of a wizard may be more than a prop for age, said Hama. He looked hard at the ash staff on Gandalf leaned. Yet in no doubt a man of worth will trust his own wisdom. I believe you are friends and folk worthy of honor and have no evil purpose. You may go in so he doesn't have to leave his staff. And then literally right after, as soon as Wormtail says like one thing out of his mouth, he's a. [00:36:49] Speaker B: You dude. You said Wormtail is a rat. No shocks there. Worm Tongue is his name. Are you kidding me? [00:37:00] Speaker A: That's exactly why I said Worm Tongue is a rat. No jot sale. But I was thinking Worm Tail from obviously Harry Potter. And that's exactly what I think. And half of these names go also into Harry Potter is the one thing that I said. Like JK obviously took so many things from this book. It's actually kind of insane when I read it. But yeah, and I was like, yeah, and she just changed her evil guide to Worm Tail. I was like, no wonder he's a rat. Oh, oh, oh, oh. But yes, yours was good too. Was Wormtongue is a worm, obviously. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Come on. It's literally in his name. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Like, you couldn't have come up with. [00:37:39] Speaker B: A better name for him. Tolkien. Yeah, a little too on the nose, buddy. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, he starts talking shit and then, like I said, Gandalf knocks him off his feet with his show of power and he like bombards his ass. And then Gandalf is like, wormtongue is a terrible person. He's undermining you and your authority and he's trying to make it so that you're cut off from the world and that everybody is dying. Around you. And he's telling this all to the king, Theoden, and that Theoden should regain his strength and move against Isengard instead of just staying locked in this castle. And we find out that Eomer, who let them go earlier, who was the writer of Rohan, was put in jail because Wormtongue was like, oh, he. If he let those people go free, he must be a traitor until they put him in jail. And so then Theoden confronts Wormtongue and he doesn't really have any excuses, so he kind of just runs out because Theoden is like, I'm gonna take these people to fight. And so Wormtail just runs out. And then they decide that they're gonna be marching on Isengard and going over there. So they have to elect somebody in place to make sure that there's somebody running everything. And so they elect for the king's niece. [00:38:55] Speaker B: Yeah, she's like the only one. [00:38:58] Speaker A: She's like, the only one. They suggest somebody else. And then one of the guys is like, just, he's coming with us. Yeah, she. He's coming with us. And also, she's the one that everybody likes. Like, everybody's gonna listen to her. And all the commoners like her, and all the knights like her. [00:39:13] Speaker B: And she's mad. [00:39:14] Speaker A: She just kind of plus, like, she, like, takes care of everything anyways. Like, just put her in charge. And they're like, yeah, okay, makes sense. [00:39:24] Speaker B: They do it. [00:39:26] Speaker A: I didn't realize that she was pressing on Aragorn. I didn't get that at all. [00:39:30] Speaker B: Yeah, every time he passed her, she would, like, stare at him. Maybe she's not crushing, but she's like, this guy. Yeah, this guy. [00:39:43] Speaker A: And now I'm shocked because we were at chapter six, and I'm like, we're going to war on two fronts. Like the Ents and these writers. I was like, I can't believe we're having a war book. I was not expecting a war book Book two. I was expecting book three to be war book. [00:39:59] Speaker B: So I was expecting two to be a war book. And here's my reasoning. And this is right to the next chapter. My favorite scene from Lord of the Rings, the only scene that I like, mad. Pay attention to because I think it is so funny. And it's like a. It's a quick little thing, but it's just. I think it's hilarious, is when they're in Helm's Deep and there's a battle and Gimli and Legolas have their little competition. [00:40:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:26] Speaker B: And in the movie, it's so funny. And I was convinced it was just the movie. Trying to, like, add humor to, like, a rough battle scene, that there's not much of other things you're doing other than stabbing each other. [00:40:40] Speaker A: But it's in the book. Yeah. Wait, have you watched the second movie? [00:40:46] Speaker B: Not recently, but I watched the second movie before. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:40:51] Speaker B: I mean, obviously, because I know that. [00:40:53] Speaker A: You watched the Fellowship of the Rings recently, because you just read that book. I wasn't sure if he made you watch the second one before he would finish reading this one. [00:41:00] Speaker B: Absolutely not. Not. That's not permitted in this household. Baby, we read the book first. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Anyway. Yeah. So they have this big battle at home. Steep. And they are losing. And then the king is like, I want to go out there. Because they're. They're at Helm's Deep. It's never been breached before, but then it kind of gets breached. And so then the king is like, I'm gonna just go out in there and charge them. And Aragorn's like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah. So then they do that, and it kind of works. But then it really works when Gandalf comes back. [00:41:33] Speaker B: Yep. Gandalf saved. Just like normal again. [00:41:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Because he left earlier. He left for no reason. He just was like, oh, bye. I'll see you later. Continue doing what you're doing. And then he came back at the. [00:41:43] Speaker B: Last second at the very beginning of this chapter. He's like, bye, I. I have to go run this errand. It's gonna be quick. But he didn't, like, give them, like, a good time frame or anything. So then in the beginning of the next chapter, they're like, yeah, we didn't know when you were coming back. And he's like, I said it was gonna be quick. And they were like. [00:42:03] Speaker A: That doesn't tell us anything. That doesn't say, that could be one week. That could be one day. But Gimli won. He won 42 to 41. [00:42:13] Speaker B: Yep. And Legolas was like, you know what? I'm happy that you won because it means that you're alive. And I was like, they love each other. [00:42:22] Speaker A: They do love each other. It's the sweetest little. [00:42:24] Speaker B: The best romance. Yeah, the best. [00:42:27] Speaker A: I know. And then later, it might be in this chapter or, like, by the end of it, they're like, if you want to go here, then I'll go there. Like, we will only go together if we go on this trip. After this trip, we're going to plan our other trip to here. And we Only can go together. [00:42:41] Speaker B: No, because I said, I literally even wrote that in my notes. I was like, oh. Because the Ent, that's when they meet the Ents. Yeah, like oh, I want to go see the forest you live in. And the end's like, okay. And he's like, bring any elf you want. And then Legolas is like, I can't bring an elf. I'm bringing this dwarf thing. [00:43:00] Speaker A: I think they even talk about it before that. And then he talks about it with him personally and he's like, oh, you can bring an elf. He's like, no, get, we already made a pact. [00:43:10] Speaker B: But then the end's like, this is a weird ass friendship. [00:43:14] Speaker A: But okay, well, because Gimli's gonna take him to like a place by him or something. They're like, we're gonna see the forest together or the caves. Yeah. [00:43:21] Speaker B: He was like, you gotta see the caves. Obviously. [00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah, they're the best friends. [00:43:26] Speaker B: Anyway, so now Gandalf wants to go to Isengard to talk to Saruman, who's an Isengard. Do we already know the Ents? So that's a little foreshadowing for you. As if I didn't just say that Legolas talks to the head end. [00:43:42] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Yep. So then on their way there, obviously they see the Ents because they already know that they're going there. Finally get to see Isengard and it used to be beautiful, but now it's absolutely destroyed because it's under the rule of Saruman. And yeah, that's basically where that chapter is. Oh no, that chapter ends on. We get to see Mary and Pippin. And they're just chilling by the gate, smoking their weed and they're like, okay, guys, they don't even recognize them at first. They're like, oh, hey guys. Yeah, they said that we were expecting a king. This is me welcoming the king. [00:44:22] Speaker A: And then they're like, what the fuck? And they're like, oh God. [00:44:26] Speaker B: Gimli's like, what the fuck, guys, we've been looking for you. Gimli was the most upset, the most excited to see them, the most angry at them. He was all of the things. But he loves them the most for sure. [00:44:41] Speaker A: The most excited to see them. Especially when they give him tobacco. Next chapter he gets tobacco. And he's like, man, I really missed you guys. Yeah. [00:44:51] Speaker B: And he's like, they're like, are we even now? And he's like, no, I'm heavy in your debt, dudes. [00:44:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And so now the gang is back together and Gandalf goes off to go talk to Treebeard and he goes with Theoden to go talk to him. And Merry and Pippin stay back with Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas. And they tell their story, kind of how they came to be and what happened with the Ents and what happened with the Ents fighting off everybody in Isengard and how they broke through and how they took the city. And about how Gandalf came and saw them at some point and asked them to help out. And so they ended up, like, breaking a dam and wiping out some Orcs. And then they say that worm tongue came to talk to Saruman and so he's up with them right now. They just like kind of let him scuttle up to where Saruman was. And that's basically. They just talk that a whole chapter? [00:45:48] Speaker B: Yeah, just exchanging stories. This chapter is called Flotsam and Jetsam. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Do you recognize those words from the Little Mermaid? [00:45:59] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. I read the chapter name and I was like, flat some Jetson boys. [00:46:08] Speaker A: Well, I was going, I don't know if this is. Obviously this is predates that. But I also didn't understand why in the chapter it was called that. [00:46:17] Speaker B: Well, so I looked it up. The eels are named Flotsam and Jetsam after two different types of shipwrecks. Flotsam is a sunken vessel with its cargo floating at the surface of the sea while Jetsam is any cargo that has been intentionally thrown into the sea. So I think they're like comparing the two different journeys as Flotsam and Jetsam. Yeah, but the sunken vessel with all of its cargo floating was the. The two little Hobbits. And then the cargo that was intentionally thrown into the sea was the. The rest of the company. [00:46:53] Speaker A: Makes sense. [00:46:54] Speaker B: Isn't that interesting? [00:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a cute little metaphor. [00:46:58] Speaker B: Cute little quip for you. Yeah. And then after we exchange all of these stories, Gandalf is like, all right, guys, who wants to go see Saruman? And Pippin's like, should we be scared? He's like, only if you kind of go near him. He can put a spell on you, but who knows? [00:47:19] Speaker A: Yeah, just the power of his voice is enough to cast a spell on you by him. Not really do anything other than talking to you, but it'll be fine. [00:47:27] Speaker B: We're good. And then they all go. [00:47:31] Speaker A: Yeah, every single one of them. [00:47:32] Speaker B: Even the kink actually goes with them. [00:47:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And then they are going to split up because they're like, oh, only this many people can go. And then they're like, okay, well then only four of us gonna go. And then they're like, well, why can't I go? And so then literally all of them go. [00:47:47] Speaker B: Another thing, Sorry. I just like read this. From the beginning of the book until right now, it's only been nine days, which is crazy. [00:47:55] Speaker A: So happy. Because the whole first book took place over what, like, like five months? [00:48:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it was crazy. It was like. It was. [00:48:05] Speaker A: So much time was passing, so much time was passing. And like weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks of walking. And then finally that's why I was like, this book is so much easier to read and so much quicker. Like, everything about it, it just like flies by. [00:48:18] Speaker B: Happens in nine days. Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker A: And we're not even with the same people the whole time. We're even, like cutting between until it's like getting more action every single time. And I'm like, oh. Oh my gosh. And there's a reason that we're going to these things. All right, then we're at chapter 10, which is the verse of Saruman. Everyone goes and sees Saruman like we said. And Gandalf knocks on the door. And then Wormtongue comes out and Ganov's like, why the fuck are you out here? Give me Saruman. So Saruman comes out and he decides that he's gonna address everybody one by one. And so he does Theoden and all of his people first. And like everyone was saying it was very easy to get enthralled by his voice. And so they felt like he was making some points when he was talking to them. It seemed like maybe he was going to try and get them to come to his side. And then the king just snaps out of it and is like, shut up. Yeah, shut up. Don't say anything. You're just a terrible person who tells us lies. And then you can see that Saruman is a little shaken. And then. But he tries on Gandalf. And again with Gandalf, everyone is like, oh, it seems like Gandalf might actually take it. Like anyone that wasn't Gandalf might hear these wonderful words. And like they were a little scared that Gandalf was about to turn on them. And then again, I've just starts laughing in his face. And he was like, hahaha. Who do you think I am? Like, I know that you think you know who I am, but that's not who I am anymore. Okay, I'm going to give you one chance to give up, all right? One chance to go free. And Saruman's like, okay, you Say, go free, but I know there's going to be strings attached. So what are the strings? And Gandalf's like, the only thing you need to do is surrender the key that you have of Orn thank. And you need to surrender your staff. And depending on your behavior and how the rest of this board turns out, we might give it back to you. And Saman's like, maybe depending on what you do. And Sarah's like, I'm not taking that deal. You're just doing that to take my power. Nothing you say is relevant. You're just Gandalf the Gray. You're just below me. You can't do anything to me. And he gets upset, so he refuses. And he tries to turn away and refuse the offer. And Gandalf is like, bitch, you thought. [00:50:42] Speaker B: You thought, you thought. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Okay, so he just drags him back simply with a word and his power. And he's able to literally make him do what he wants him to do. And he's like, okay, you, you are stripped of your power. He doesn't even need to touch the staff in Saruman's hand. It just snaps in front of him because he is stripped, because he is Gandalf the White bitch. Okay? [00:51:06] Speaker B: He said, not in my house. [00:51:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And he strips him of his order. And like I said, his staff breaks. And because of all of this that's going down, Wormtongue decides that he's going to throw something at Gandalf and try to hit him, but it misses. And then Pippin ends up picking it up. And then everyone leaves, is defeated. Yep. And he has to stay there. Basically. They're just gonna stay there. And they can't leave. And he just has to stay there. And he doesn't have any power anymore. And Wormtongue is just gonna be there, just hanging out. But they won't be able to leave the area. And Treebeard guarantees they won't be able to leave the area. And they're gonna, like, make sure that. I think all of the Ents, they're babysitting them. No, I think not only are the Ents babysitting them, I think they're like taking all the bridges to the tower and they're collapsing them so they literally can't get out. That's. I think that's what the Ents are doing. They're not like, they're making sure that the Ents cover all of the, like, literally, like, make sure they don't leave. Not like, oh, I'm just gonna sit here and watch you, like, no, you're actually collapsing all of the entrances, making sure they don't leave. [00:52:12] Speaker B: You're not going anywhere, bitch. [00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And so then, yeah, they leave. And I am like, okay, so what's the plan now? Where's everybody going? We don't know anything about Frodo and Sam. So what is the plan now? Because we. We had a plan to start on and now I don't understand what the plan is. [00:52:28] Speaker B: Yeah, well, their plan is basically, they're just going to Helm's Deep. That's all they know for now. Mary rides with Gandalf for the first portion but then they stop for the night, kind of. And that's when Pippin is like, hey, there's this thing Gandalf has that I kind of want to, like, see. And he kind of goes. [00:52:49] Speaker A: He. [00:52:49] Speaker B: He gets told to go to bed and he doesn't go to bed. He lets Mary go to bed first. And then he sneaks off to Gandalf and Gandalf has this, like, orb thing and he steals his orb thing. And then he has, like, all these visions and he sees things. [00:53:03] Speaker A: And the orbs, by the way, was what tongue threw down at them. He gave them a specific orb that. That's why it's like this evil orb, evil orb. [00:53:14] Speaker B: And he can't stop thinking about it, so he has to go and get it. So he. Because he can't sleep, so he goes and gets it from Gandalf's bed and he starts having all these visions and seeing things. And then he's freaking out and he's crying and it causes the other people to wake up. And then Gandalf finds him and he's like, that orb is what Sauron used to communicate to his minions. So it's how Sauron has been telling Saman Sauron that those names get me every time. What to do. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:46] Speaker B: And so, like, it's interesting because like I said in the very beginning when we heard those Orcs talk it was, like, interesting to see the different. Like, they're following different people, but they're. They have the same path. And so here we are the whole time Saruman was fouling Sauron even though he. They kind of had different goals, but he was still going with it. And that's how he was communicating. And so now Pippin is, like, freaking out. And then Gandalf is like, all right, you're safe. You were almost an idiot, but you're safe and I forgive you. And then a big shadow is cast over the land and they have to run and so that he grabs Pippin and he's like, you're with me today. And Mary goes with Aragon. And then everybody just gets the fuck out of there. They're out. [00:54:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And then Gana says that they. They specifically are going to Minas Turret. And I'm like, is it just them? Because I thought everyone was going to Helm's Deep. So I think they might separately be going somewhere. But I could be wrong because I haven't read past this. [00:54:47] Speaker B: First of all, the end of this chapter, I was like, gandalf really loves these hobbits. [00:54:52] Speaker A: He's obsessed with hobbits. [00:54:53] Speaker B: He was like making comments about hobbits in the beginning. And he was like, you guys are funny. You ask a lot of questions. I like you. And then he's like, every wizard should have their own little hobbits. So I was like, well, he loves hobbits. That's why he keeps taking them on these adventures without them willingly going. Because he just loves hobbits and their company. [00:55:12] Speaker A: He's like, you're so pint sized and cute. I just like to have you around. Exactly. [00:55:18] Speaker B: And then by the end of this chapter, I'm like, finally we're getting Sauron as the bad guy, not Saruman. And he's been the background villain this whole time. He hasn't been in like the front. So now we're getting him as the front man because this is. He caused this to happen. So I'm excited because now we're like actually getting to that. The main bad guy, the Mordor, the Eye, all that stuff. That's right. But yeah, he says at the end of the book, he's like, we're gonna go to this in three days. We're gonna make it to this mountain place. And I was like, how long is this journey? [00:55:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker B: And what happened to Helm's Deep? Because I feel like we're not going there anymore. I feel like our plan has changed. But he doesn't necessarily say where they're all going. [00:56:08] Speaker A: Right. That's why I was like, are you specifically going there? Are you going to drop him off with them at home Deep. And then you're going. Or you guys going together or is everybody going instead of going to Helm's Deep, we're all going there. I felt like it was not clear. [00:56:25] Speaker B: I felt like this chapter in general should have been the first chapter of the next book. Like it didn't feel like the end of this book. [00:56:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's kind of the first half. [00:56:35] Speaker B: You know, it felt weird. [00:56:36] Speaker A: That is very true. Because at the end of the last book, I was like, okay, so what's the plan? And at the end of this book, I was like. At the end of the chapter, I was again, like, what's the plan? I feel like we don't have a plan yet. And I feel like he also just changed his mind. The plan that we did have was to go to helm sleep. And I feel like we just changed our minds. Like, what is the plan? Where are we going? What are we doing for the rest of this? Because it's not exactly clear. Yeah, I feel like. But what is your prediction about what's going to happen? How do you feel about the way this story is shaped up so far? [00:57:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So my prediction is the next quote, unquote book, or the next half of this book, whatever you want to call it. I'm sure we're confusing the audience with all these talks of books. [00:57:19] Speaker A: Before I read this, do you remember before we were reading this? I was like, I just read the first half, which was just technically the first book. And because you were reading the Hobbit, you were like, what are you talking about? And I was like, it's the first half. But like, you know, the first book, it just says the end of the first book. And then we get to book two, like, I'm assuming. And you're like, I. I don't even know what you're saying. I just. I'm gonna. No. [00:57:39] Speaker B: Yeah. It made no sense to me at the time. [00:57:42] Speaker A: Now it does. [00:57:43] Speaker B: Anyway. So I think the second half of the Two Towers is going to be, you know, we're getting all of our updates on Sam and Frodo. We're going to go with them on our journey to. [00:57:54] Speaker A: And I think by the end of. [00:57:55] Speaker B: That book, we're going to have, like, I don't know, more of a resolution before we get into the third book. [00:58:04] Speaker A: Yeah, but a resolution about what? I don't know. [00:58:09] Speaker B: See, I don't. I can't predict that because I don't remember from the movies, at least where that ends. I don't have. [00:58:17] Speaker A: I know how accurate prediction the end, end ends, but I don't know anything about where we live off. [00:58:24] Speaker B: Yeah. So I don't know where we're going to end at the Two Towers. I have no idea. But I know that we're going to get at least our updates from Sam and Frodo. And I think this whole second half of the Two Towers is going to be just their pov. We're not going to be bouncing around and that's where my prediction where I said it's going to be a little bit more like the Hobbit where we're getting like certain tales each chapter for these characters rather than like different aspects of a whole story. [00:58:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:59] Speaker B: So. [00:59:00] Speaker A: Well, I mean like I said before, I really liked this half of the book. I thought it was a lot more fast paced than the first book. In general I am very curious about Sam infronto I do expect to see them. I just wasn't sure if it was going to be intercut with Aragorn and everybody else because they are all together now if it was going to be like every other I. When this book first started I thought it was going to be 2, 2, 2 and it was going to be like Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and then it was going to be Pippin and Mary and then it was going to be Sam and Frodo and we're going to do it like that until they merged at some point the two merged and then we were just getting Sam and Frodo. But yeah, I'm assuming that we're going to get majority of the back half of this to be Sam and Frodo if not all of it. But again, what could they be doing to warrant half of a book? Yeah. By just walking. I have the same question by just walking Sauce. I'm like is there still going to be parts of the other everybody else. But I feel like the reason I like this book more I was thinking about it is because we actually have actions and reasons why we're going to places in this book and like reasons why we're getting into every skirmish and why we're getting into every fight and why we're like meeting these people on the road. Whereas before I feel like it was yeah. Told or just running into places or accidentally falling into somewhere that you shouldn't be. And I feel like this is just so much more active and it's so much easier to interact with these people because I feel like they have a purpose. Whereas before it was so much more passive and I was like what? Why are they like what are they doing? Now I feel like I'm involved so it does make me feel like we're going. [01:00:37] Speaker B: You understand? Which is also why you're probably upset by the end of this last chapter. Like where are we going? [01:00:42] Speaker A: Right. I'm like, I don't understand what we're doing now. Like I had a plan in my head and now I don't know where the plan is. I don't get It. The only prediction that I really have with this is because it is called the Two Towers. And I'm assuming the second tower is the Dark Tower. So I'm assuming we're going to like, hopefully see more of the Bit bad. But that is the only thing that I can think of that's a good. [01:01:11] Speaker B: Prediction, considering the title. Yes. What if we have a chapter that's exclusively from the orc's perspective? [01:01:20] Speaker A: Okay, that could be interesting. [01:01:22] Speaker B: Well, we're gonna find out next because. [01:01:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I think they. I. Okay, this is my prediction. I'm sorry, I just. I just had. I just thought about this. So they're gonna make it to the tower. Maybe they'll get captured and they get trapped in the tower. At some point, maybe they have to make it out of the tower. Maybe something like that. Or they have to break into the tower because of something. But they have to go to Mount Dune. Mount Dune is not the tower. So maybe they have to go past the tower and something happens where they see it. Something's going to happen in the tower. And that's why it's like on the way to the mountain slash volcano where they have to throw the ring in. [01:02:00] Speaker B: Wasn't Helm's Deep a tower? [01:02:04] Speaker A: I have no idea. I thought it was a cavern. [01:02:10] Speaker B: What am I thinking of? Because it has a. Oh, I'm looking in the wrong book. I'm reading this bad boy right now. I just saw this illustration. [01:02:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:22] Speaker B: And they say it's a tower. Helm's Deep has a tower in the middle of it. [01:02:30] Speaker A: So those are the two towers. We already got the two towers. [01:02:33] Speaker B: Well, it's one tower. [01:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And then the second tower was Tower. [01:02:38] Speaker B: So then Saruman's tower would be the second tower. Maybe. I know that Helmsdeep had a tower. So two towers. [01:02:46] Speaker A: Who knows? [01:02:47] Speaker B: We'll find out next week.