Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to B and C Book Club. I'm Kristen.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: And I'm Summer. This is the podcast where we bring you all the comfort and gossip of a regular book club. But just between you, me, and her.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: And you may be wondering what the B and the C stand for. Well, the B stands for balance and.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: The C stands for concussion.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Has it been a concussion kind of day?
[00:00:22] Speaker B: It's been a concussion kind of week.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: How have you been, though?
[00:00:28] Speaker B: I've been not great, but, you know, that's life.
Life didn't hand me lemons. Life handed me coconuts and expected me to fall out of the coconut tree, and that's why I have a concussion.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: In the consciousness of this world of all that became you and all that was before.
Exactly.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Whatever it is.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: I thought you were going to say it handed you coconuts because it hit you in the head with one.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: That, too. It hit me in the head with a coconut. And then it said, hey, you're getting pushed out of this fucking coconut tree, because that's my life.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Well, I've been back at work, so how's work going? It's been good. Today was a challenge, but it's fine.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: I can only imagine.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: We live and we learn.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: God, I don't even want to know what that means.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: How did you like this book? How did you like the second half? What were your thoughts on everything?
[00:01:31] Speaker B: So I will say the second half of the book, the book in general as a whole. Right. Two towers, rather than just book three and four.
The two towers has been challenging for me because I don't like it when we stay on one, like, kind of character the entire time rather than because our characters aren't together. Right. Because we have half of the party is off in battle and trying to find Pippin and Mary and all of that. And then the other half is trying to get this ring destroyed. And so, and I brought this up to you is that it feels kind of like that Throne of Glass series. It's a reference that you don't understand, but other people will. Where there's a book called Tower of Dawn and there's a book called oh, Empire of Storms. It's Tower of Dawn and Empire of Storms. They're happening at the same time in our storyline, in our story timeline. But one book is entirely from Kale's perspective, and the other book is from the rest of our lovable characters that we're in love with. And so it, like, people who read these books will literally jump between the two, between chapters and go, like, read three chapters, and then they'll go to the next one and read four chapters from this other book and then come back to the same book. Because they don't want to stay on one character the whole time. Because either they don't love that character, or it's just like they want to know what's happening. And because the Queen of Shadows, the book before those two books take place, it, like, leaves off on a cliffhanger. So they're just dying. And I completely understand that. And that's how I feel about these. Yes, we didn't leave off on a cliffhanger, but it feels like I just want to know what's happening with our other party.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: I understand, but I mean, I felt that way in the beginning, the first half of this book. But once we reach this half of this book, I just. Since we basically go back to the beginning of where they just left off, I was like, okay, well, now we're with them. And all of the thoughts that I had before of, like, what are Frodo and Sam doing? I now no longer have for the rest of the company. Because I'm like, oh, I already know what they're doing. We just saw them do what they're going to do.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's understandable.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: So I really liked this half of the book. It was very easy for me to read.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: I. I'll agree with that statement. It is easier to read than some of the other books in this series.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: AKA the first one.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: That's the only other one that we've read.
[00:04:04] Speaker B: Well, we also. Well, no, I'll say. Hobbit was super easy. Out of all of these books, the Hobbit was the easiest.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: But we also.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: This was very exciting for me, honestly, out of the three that we've read, this is probably my favorite out of the three, because the first one was just hard to read. I don't know what it was. It was just hard for me to get through the first Lord of the Rings. Yes. The Fellowship of the Rings.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: And the Hobbit was a fun read, but I just felt like nothing was really happening.
Like things were happening, but nothing was happening at the same time.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Nothing significant at times.
[00:04:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: And so I was just kind of reading it. While it was easy to read, I was just kind of reading it. And this one, I felt more engaged with everybody, and I think that's because they have a little bit more agency in this part of the. The story. And also, I know everybody already, so that's nice.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. There's no, like, character building. Well, there's character building, but no character introduction, so.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: I mean, there's a. Yeah, I meant. Yeah, I meant the main people.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: There's always a million introductions for no reason.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, deep backgrounds that we don't need. So this book, Book four starts basically right from when we. Apart from the party. Sam and Frodo got into the boat and they left. And so now they're by themselves. They're trying to get to the. To Mordor, to destroy this Ring.
And Sam and Frodo don't know where they're going, basically. So they've known for a while that Smeagol is following them. They've let him follow them. But finally they're, like, going through these cliffs and they fall off the cliff and they get saved by Sam's rope. Sam's very, very happy and excited about his Handy Dandy rope. It's like the greatest joy of his life is bringing that rope along.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: And it's a fantastic group. They talk about the fantastic rope all the time.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: And then they use the rope to go down more cliffs and find their way, but it's just not enough. So Gollum's been following them. And they finally get Gollum. They get him with the rope and they tie him up. And they're like, we want you to. Or at least Frodo is like, can you take us there? We know you've been there. And Smeagol's like, yeah, I've been there. And he's like, take us. And then he's like, you know what? I will, because I will serve the Master of the Ring. And so he agrees to take them. And they untie him.
And he keeps the whole time calling them the little nice Hobbits just to be nice. And he's, like, sucking up to them a little bit, but he keeps saying nice Hobbits. And I thought that was adorable. I don't really think at this point that it's great that we're partnering with him. But, you know, he's gonna get them at least somewhere because they really don't know where they're going.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah. That is the one problem with them, is that they still have no idea what they're doing or where they're going. They're just kind of on their own now. So do I think it's a good idea? No. Do I think they have any other options also? No. So they're gonna do what they're going to do. And I guess we have a new teammate now.
So Schmegel. Goes pretty fast, but he will stop and wait for them. And they offer him food from their pack, but he says that it smells bad and so he never wants to eat it. And so he goes and hunts for his own food and he'll say that he'll starve for the nice hobbits just continuously sucking up to them no matter what. They go into marshes and they kind of just.
I don't.
[00:07:37] Speaker C: They.
[00:07:37] Speaker A: They just go through the marshes. There isn't really any reason for this stuff. It's just. Just to have stuff to do on the journey. And so they. Some rap some dead people in the marshes almost get Sam. But Gollum warns them off and then they can continue. They also see a ray fly above them and Gollum tells the boys that Sauron probably knows where they are now and they have to hurry up basically. And then it has been five days since they partnered with Gollum and so eight days in total since they left the company.
And then they leave the marshes.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: I will tell you before we get any further, Sid, my husband, who's obsessed with this movie, says that it's relevant the. The dead that they find in the marshes, but it's relevant for the next book.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: Ah, okay.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: So, so little.
Just a heads up there for you.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Maybe I should reread that chapter because I definitely. All of that information that they told me about them is basically gone. And then once they settle for the night, Sam wakes up and hears Gollum Smeagol having a debate on whether or not they should steal the ring and kill the hobbits and eat the hobbits. And Smeagol is a nice one and keeps saying that they should keep their promise and help them. While Gollum is trying to convince himself that they can keep their promise by taking it and then becoming the Master of the Ring. So thereby they are still promising to help the Master of the Ring.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah, a little word play.
But at this point I'm still like, yeah, he's being a little trickster and I don't have faith in him, but at least he has the decency to like help them out right now and get them out of the marshes.
And he's like kind of just being helpful.
Like I don't see the bad side of Gollum at this point, but I just know that he's. He's gonna turn at some point.
Gollum's a big topic for this second half of this story too.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah. My only thing is he's not gonna lead them. He's already following them. He's not Gonna leave them. And they keep saying, oh, we'll let you go, but he's just not gonna leave them. And I don't think they understand that.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: Sam seeing him see this debate take place and then still not think, oh, he might follow us even if we let him go. I don't know why they wouldn't be thinking that.
That when we let him go, he might try and steal the ring from us.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to say Sam saw him having this debate, but he saw him, like, talking to himself. He didn't, like, hear what he's saying, so he wouldn't necessarily understand that. He's, like, plotting to steal the Ring at the moment.
At this point, at the end of chapter two, it's been 11 days in total. And I want to say the book One of the Two Towers, or Book three, technically, of Lord of the Rings, it only is around 13 days in total. So we're at the point where we no longer know what the company is up to or what's happening on their side, because it's been 13 days in total, and they're. The last story took place within 13 days. And then they went off into the wind with Gandalf. Meanwhile, our two little hobbits with the ring have just barely started their journey.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: I didn't realize that we were outpacing our story like this. I thought that it was all happening simultaneously. But I guess because they do have to walk so far, that would make sense.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Isn't that kind of crazy, though?
[00:11:27] Speaker A: But that also makes sense why he splits it up, then. Because he can't necessarily cut between two points of view if one point of view isn't there anymore.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Right. But now we're at the point where we don't know anything. And so now I'm like, well, I want to know what's happening with the other characters, because it's been. But it also would be not nice to these characters breaking up their story after only, you know, like, so little of their tale being told.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: True.
[00:11:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: Because we get to the end of Chapter two, when we're basically the entire half of the first story. We wouldn't really be getting that many details anyway, even if we did try to cut between them.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
So that leads us right into the Chapter 3, the Black Gate.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Chapter 3, the Black Gate is closed. We get to the gate and he's like, here you go.
[00:12:18] Speaker C: We're at the gate.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Okay, we can leave now. And Frodo was like, no, we have to go through the gate. And this is when Gollum Says, no, you can't go through the Gate. They're going to catch you if you go through the Gate. What are you talking about? I mean, I only brought you here because you said to, but we're going to leave now, right?
And both Frodo and Sam are like, no, we have to get through the Gate. And Gollum says, it's impossible. There's no way that they can get through without getting caught. But he might know another path to the Tower of the Moon.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: And that pisses Sam off.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it pisses Sam off a lot that there might be a third path and that he took them to the Gate thinking that they would never actually go through the Gate. And Sam starts to call them Slinker and Stinker, talking about Schmiegel and Gollum, his two personalities. And I love that nickname. I just love it. And then some black figures fly overhead and they see an arming passing by.
This kind of prompts Frodo into action to decide to actually follow Gollum on to the third path.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Yeah. And at this point, like, that's when I was like, yeah, Smell is, like, kind of tricking us, but he's also helping us at the same time. Like, he was asked to bring them there, so it's not really his fault. But at the same time, like, he knew.
I don't know. I'm. I'm so torn with Gollum because sometimes I'm like, he's just a little guy. And then sometimes I'm like, he's the worst character.
He's evil. So that brings us right into chapter four of Herbs and Sued Rabbit, where Gollum's, like, trying to get them to move faster, move quickly.
They rest for, like, a moment when Frodo goes to bed and, like, Sam sees him asleep and is seeing that he's lost a lot of weight and he looks really weary. And so he tries to make him a good hefty meal. And he sends Gollum to go find them rabbit. Then Gollum goes and buys them rabbit. And then he comes back and he's like, okay, I'm gonna start this fire. Go get some water. And then Gom goes gets him water and then brings it back. And then he's like, okay, get some herbs. And then he goes and gets some herbs and brings them back. And then it's when he sends him for potatoes, that Golem's like, all right, I've had enough of you, Sam. I'm done.
So Sam's like, all right, I'm gonna go look for some potatoes myself. Then. And he goes away. And then he sees that the smoke from his fire, which Gollum warned him about, is actually visible. And now he starts worrying about actually being caught in scene. And then obviously they're caught in scene. And we get introduced to technically four new characters, although we never learn one of their names, which is super random because Tolkien likes to do this thing where he'll introduce you to a small party, but he'll introduce you to every single character of that small party. But we only get to learn about three of them.
So we learn the group leader is Faramir, and Faramir finds them. Frodo immediately is like, hey, here's my. My name. Sam's name. We used to be in a party with Boromir and Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli, and that's our tale. We're just travelers. And then Farmer's like, okay, I have to go fight a battle. I'm gonna be right back. I'm gonna leave you with these two guys.
And then I'll be back. And he leaves. And then those two guys, like, which are so insignificant, I don't know their names and I don't remember any part of their. Their story. But during this whole time, they give all these details about their lives and their names and everything, just in true Tolkien fashion.
But it's literally so insignificant, I couldn't even tell you what their names were.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: No. I remember thinking about looking it up, and then I never did that.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: That's that.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: I know that they were there, and I know that they had backstories, and I know that they had names.
I don't remember what they were.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: They existed. They did exist.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: And I just can't believe that he just went off and told his entire life story just right off the bat without. Without anything. He was like, oh, hi, new person. Yeah, let me just tell you everything that you need to know.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Everything but the Ring.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Pretty sure people are looking for me.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Everything but the Ring. Because Gandalf said to never tell anyone about the Ring.
So that's the one thing he didn't tell him.
Yeah, we both know what happens next chapter.
So then this chapter is basically closed out. But he comes back after defeating the enemy, and they take a little break, and then it leads us into our next chapter. But at the very end of this chapter, I will say there's this cute little tidbit where Sam is like, if you leave, will you wake me? Because Faramir is like, hey, take a rest. And he's like, if you leave, will you wake me. And he's like, yeah, we'll wake you. And he's like, no, really, will you wake me? Like, please don't leave me behind. And I was like. Like, he is so funny. He actually thinks he's going to get left behind. I feel so bad.
I know.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Poor baby. He has all these insecurities and about not being good enough. It manifests so badly for him.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So then we come to our next chapter, right?
[00:17:52] Speaker A: So Faramir is back. He's about 200 to 300 soldiers with him. And he starts to interrogate Frodo, trying to catch him in a lie.
And the reason that is because it turns out that he's Bormia's brother. Faramir is Bormir's brother. Okay.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: Who would have thunk.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: Who would have thunk it with those names?
[00:18:13] Speaker B: I know. So unpredictable.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: I know.
And turns out he had a vision. We're not really sure how or why, but it was.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: It was a dream.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: It was a dream.
He had a dream. He had a vision. He saw something. He saw his brother floating in a pool, gathered up with his broken horn on a funeral pyre. And he knows that he's dead. And he thought that Frodo had done something to him. He thought that Frodo had killed Boromir and was trying to catch Frodo in a lie while he's interrogating him. But that doesn't work out because Frodo didn't know that Boromir was dead.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: He's like, dude, last I saw this guy, he was alive. I swear.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: I swear. But for me, this was just like, Boromir was such a headache when he was alive. And now, even in death, he's fucking things up for people.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: How rude of him. Right?
[00:19:16] Speaker A: That's what I was thinking. But, yeah, Frodo wasn't aware that Boromir is dead. And so after that is when Faramir kind of stops suspecting them. But it's also when he gets the confirmation from Frodo about his vision being true. And Frodo is able to. Oh, yeah, that was the boat that we had. Oh, yeah, that was the clothes that Galadriel gave him. Oh, yeah, it was this. So he confirms that he did have a dream slash vision of his brother being dead.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: And he, like, worries a little bit because he's like, well, if Boromir is dead, then all of my friends are dead. And that's sad. And then four mirrors, like, well, I mean, somebody had to bury the guy.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: So they're probably fine.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: At least somebody's alive, okay?
[00:20:04] Speaker A: Yeah, but he's still also kind of accusing them. And also, Sam wasn't really paying attention. And so he kind of busts in and is like, hey, you can't be mean to Frodo about what happened to Mormir, okay? He was a shitty person, all right? He wanted us to go and take the Ring to the humans where we're supposed to be destroying it. And he.
And then far is like, what's going on? What ring? What are we talking about? And so far, Frodo and Faramir end up bonding about Frodo, telling Faramir what is going to happen, how he's. The whole reason that they're out here is so that they can walk to Mount Dune and destroy the Ring.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: All because Sam has a loud mouth.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: A loud mouth. And honestly, this is his fault because if he didn't have such a loud mouth, then Frodo and Faramir wouldn't have time to start a bromance, okay? And then he gets jealous of that later.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: He. When is he not jealous?
[00:21:02] Speaker A: That's true. Always.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Sam is such a hater.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: He is in love. Okay, they. There's a whole chapter portion. I can't remember when, but there's a whole portion of a very close chapter about how much Sam loves Frodo and how much he's worried about Frodo and how much he just would do anything for Frodo.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Hot take.
Sam is in love with Frodo and they're gay. Or at least he is.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know how hot of a take that is, considering that I've heard that for years. But sure, yeah, I agree.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: It's my own hot take.
[00:21:45] Speaker A: Okay, 100% in love with Frodo. And that's canon.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Yeah, he is definitely in love with him.
But yeah, finally, I will say this chapter was interesting because we finally get a little bit more of Frodo's perspective during this chapter.
And like, Boromir's perspective, or not Boromir for a. Sorry. Their names are so similar. I would have never thought they were brothers.
We get more of their perspective and less of Sam's, which is crazy, because the whole book, or at least the last five chapters of book four, have been all from Sam's perspective, which I wasn't expecting. I was expecting the whole. This whole book to be from Frodo's perspective and how tough it is to be with the Ring and his concerns about the Ring and how much of a toll it's taking on him. But we get none of that. All we see is Sam looking at Frodo and being like, oh, he kind of looks tired. He's lacking. He's lagging way behind me and Gollum this whole time and he's losing weight. But that's all we really get until I want to say they're in. I even like mentioned it when they're in the Dark Caves later on. Yeah, that's when we really get to see how hard it's been for Frodo this whole time to keep his hands off the rain.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I was also surprised that this was not in Frodo's point of view. I just kind of always assumed that everything was from Frodo's point of view.
Kind of like how basically everything is from Bilbo's point of view.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: I mean there are times when you move from Bilbo, but for majority of when you're with the Company you will be with Bilbo. It's only when you go other places, like we go to Lake Town where there's not a member of the Company there, that we get like a overarching narrative. And we get that a couple times in this too. It's not just Sam, but it is primarily Sam. And that was not what I was expecting.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: Yep, but. And that leads us right into our next chapter. We get into chapter six, the Forbidden Pool where Frodo gets woken up and he's taken to a cliff far says, hey, there's this creature out there. And they don't really say it but like off the details and why he's bringing it up to Frodo. We kind of just like contextually decide it's Gollum.
And he, Faramir is basically like, do you want me to kill this guy or not? Like it's up to you. If you can vouch for him, then I'll keep him alive. But I want you to know that we usually kill everyone because he's found our he secret, super secret top secret hidden hiding place and he deserves death. And then Frodo's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, please don't kill him. And I at that point I was like, why? Why? Because we don't really trust him.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: I guess he still needs him to take him the rest of the way because they don't know the path. But then we find out that they do know the path and they're like, hey, that's a bad path.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Plus he has people who can tell him where to go. Now, Right, right. Like he's with them. You'd assume they would know how to get to where he wants to go.
[00:25:08] Speaker C: I don't know. I would say, oh. Gandalf told him not to tell anybody, but Fermi already knows.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Exactly. So that's why I was like, why don't we just kill him at this point? But whatever.
Ferra asked him not to. So he goes down there and he like kind of gets him out and he's like, he's enticing him by going, master says you need to do this. You need to listen to master because Precious wouldn't want you to get hurt.
And Gollum's like, master, I shall follow you.
And he comes out and then basically Frodo like allows him to get taken. Get Gollum's like, you've trapped me. Basically, Boromir interrogates him, promises not to hurt him. Gollum's freaking out this whole time and I was like, I'm not going to tell you shit, bro. But he wants to know about Gollum's life and Frodo kind of like fills in a little bit of the details.
But eventually Gollum gets to live and go on as long as Frodo takes responsibility for him and is like, makes him promise not to ever come back to the super top hidden secret super spy hidden location. Right?
So then he like warns Frodo not to trust Gollum, but he lets him take him anyway and he gives them all their little treats and then they go on their merry way. And at this point I was like, yes, we should have killed Frodo or not Frodo. We should have killed Fro. We should have killed Gollum. But he's just a little guy. He just at this point, like he was being so like small and like listening and he was just trying to help. And he was like, you guys left me. And I was like, he's so. He's just a little guy. You abandoned him.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: He is just a little guy. And I can't believe that Frodo keeps saving him. But I guess this is the whole point, right? This is why he can carry the Ring and not be corrupted is because he does things like this.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess. I mean it really goes to speak for what kind of like morals and character that Frodo is. I would have killed him so far so long ago.
[00:27:29] Speaker C: I mean, I guess it would be hard to be like, yeah, that guy. Kill him and then just have it be executed. That would be crazy.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: But yeah, but he's.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: When you think about it, and he's like a crazy, scary little dude. You're like, this guy has been trying to kill me. Maybe I should just take him out now.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Exactly.
But actually, what he says at the end is that Gandalf told the elves not to kill him for whatever reason. So he's following that.
[00:27:55] Speaker C: That's true.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: That I completely understand because he just does whatever Gandalf says to do, basically. And he was like, pete told me he told them not to kill him, so why would I kill him?
[00:28:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm gonna do that. So we get to chapter seven, Journey to the Crossroads. They leave, they walk a lot.
Gollum gets more and more irritable as they keep walking. Keeps telling him to hurry up. He keeps leaving and coming back. And Sam is getting a little bit suspicious of where he's going, what he could be doing, who he could be potentially talking to. But this is why Sam keeps getting more and more suspicious of Gollum. Plus, they already left him before. I'm like, gollum doesn't trust you guys anymore. He thinks that you got him captured. He thinks that you are going to do bad things to him, that you're going to betray him at any second. So now I feel like he's going to betray you. Okay, I thought he was going to betray you before, but he was being nice to you. Now I really feel like he's going to betray you.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: I was like, gollum's being a effing weirdo during this chapter. He's, like, being skittish and unfriendly, but also, like, trying to be helpful, but then unfriendly again. And I was like, this is it. He's. He's reached his breaking point, boys.
You betrayed him for the last time.
Even though they saved him, they left him. And that's all he wants, is to be with you.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: That's all he keeps saying is, please don't leave me.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And then he. He's still guiding them. And they reach Minus Morgul in the Tower of the Moon, which is where they. Gollum told them that he'd take them from the Black Gate.
Troops appear near, and they're freaking out. They're afraid they're gonna get caught. Frodo almost puts the Ring on, but he actually, it's, like, enticing him. And this is the first point of view that I was like, okay, this is where we really understand Frodo right now. This is what I expected the entire time. But now he's like, yeah, the Ring is, like, calling me. It's telling me to Put it on my. My hand is moving toward it. I can't control my hand. But then all of a sudden, he grabs the file that he got from Galadriel and he feels lighter and he feels like he can control himself again. And then that's how he's like, oh, okay. Like, now we're fine. I just have to keep this, like, little file thing in my palm. They continue miles and miles up these winding stairs. And after the first point, it's actually just, like, straight up. And then they're like.
And Gollum's like, all right, now here's the hard part. And they're like, what?
He's like, yeah, you went straight up. But now you have to go round and round and round up while Gollum's leading them up.
They're kind of like, I don't know where I'm going.
[00:30:52] Speaker C: We're here. This is when he's nice.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Oh, I thought this was creepy. I thought this was nice.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Poor baby.
He's such a small baby. This is when I had all the symphony for him.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Okay, I'm gonna. I'll say this. I'll say this just so you can come in with that next part. So they're, like, wondering how trustworthy Gollum is, but Frodo's like, yeah, he's being selfish, but at the same time, like, you can tell he doesn't want the Ring to fall into the hands of the enemy. So then they keep continuing and they get to a point where they kind of like, go to, like. Sam is like, frodo, you need to go to bed. Frodo's like, okay. And then he's like, cuddle me.
Which I thought was.
I thought that was funny. He was like, why don't you just wrap your hand around me? And then I can watch you while you sleep.
[00:31:46] Speaker C: He's like, I will protect you.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: So then Frodo lays in his lap and Sam has his.
[00:31:51] Speaker C: Like, yeah, just lets him go to bed. He just strokes his hair as he falls asleep. And because this is such a nice moment, Gollum is looking at them. And I think this is when the Most Spiegel comes out. Because I'm sure this is how hobbits actually express their emotions because this is kind of how Mary and Pippin are with each other. They're very expressive and vocal with each other and they're very close. So this is making me think that they're. This is kind of how their quote unquote, real Hobbit relationships are supposed to be. And so I just thought it was so sweet that this is what makes Gollum the most schmingel. And, like, he's just a little baby.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: He just wants to be loved.
[00:32:32] Speaker C: If he was loved, then he would be nicer. But as he's reaching out to touch Frodo and be a part of this sweet moment, Sam wakes up and finds it creepy that he's reaching out and trying to caress Frodo. Especially because Frodo is Sam's. Okay. Nobody can take Frodo from Sam.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: No. Touchy.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: Not touchy.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Not touchy.
[00:32:53] Speaker C: Sam accuses Gollum of being weird and sneaking around and just being a little guy everywhere that nobody wants to talk to.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: And he calls him a sneak.
[00:33:03] Speaker C: A sneak. And golf. Takes that personally.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:07] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:33:07] Speaker B: Who? He does.
[00:33:10] Speaker C: He was like, who the fuck do you think you are? That is not who I am. I'm not a sneak. He gets very mad. He denies it multiple times. And then Frodo wakes up and is wondering what's going on, and Gollum is still freaking out. So Frodo tells him that he can leave if he wants to. Like, we're. We're close enough. We're already at the moon towers, so you can leave. You need to leave. I'm sure we can go from here and go. It's like, no, no, no.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: You still need me.
[00:33:38] Speaker C: You still need me to go to the rest of the way. It's fine. It's final. I. I can. I can lead you the rest away.
[00:33:42] Speaker B: Don't.
[00:33:43] Speaker C: Don't leave me.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Don't leave.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:33:44] Speaker C: Hobbits away.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: Night, Sabbath.
[00:33:49] Speaker C: And this. I've just. Every single. Every single chapter. Everything they do to him. I'm like, he. He hates you more and more.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And then. So he brings them into this, like, cave thing where it's pitch black. And then he's like, yeah, we're just gonna go forward. And so they. They're, like, fumbling through the dark for, like, miles, not knowing where they're going. They're at a fork in the road. They don't know what to do. And then finally, Frodo uses the starlight. Remember? I was like, it's basically a flashlight. Well, when would you use a flashlight, Kristen? In the pitch black? Why does it take you several miles to think to use the flashlight?
[00:34:32] Speaker C: I don't know.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: So finally he remembers that he has this light that Galadriel gave him, which he's been touching the whole time so that the ring doesn't corrupt him.
[00:34:44] Speaker C: Yeah. He's like, oh, this thing that I have in my hand. Maybe I should turn it on.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Like, duh.
And they, like, see a million little eyes staring back at them when they turn that little light on because they've been feeling a presence this entire time. It turns out it's a spider. And her name is Shelob. She's a female and basically the big bad guy. Sauron knows that she exists and that he kind of feeds Orcs to her sometimes. And he. He just lets her be there. And we get this whole backstory on how she's just allowed to be. And then they have to fight the thing.
And basically she kind of, like, goes at it with. With Frodo, but then Frodo gets, like, taken down by her. No one's ever beat her. She's been alive for thousands of years.
[00:35:43] Speaker C: Yes. The spider shrinks back away from the light. They're able to walk to the end of the tunnel. And then they're stopped by cobwebs as they try to cut their way through with sting.
Some orcs are up ahead, so they have to put their light away. And as soon as they put their light away, then the spider is able to attack. And the spider attacks in a way that gets between Frodo and Sam.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: And then so when they split up is when Sam has to fight Gollum because Gollum comes back and is like, hey, I fed you to her this whole time. I promised her that I would feed her and bring her food, and I brought her food, but I brought her too much food. So now I get to eat you, your little sneak. And he calls him a sneak like, three times because that's how petty he is.
[00:36:30] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: And he was like, I'm going to eat you, buddy, because I've never liked you, Sam. And Sam gets pissed off. He's like, I never trusted this guy. I knew it. And he uses the power of just pure anger. When you, like, knew something for so long and finally gets proved right and you're so pissed off that you become inhuman. That's the kind of rage that Sam's got right now.
[00:36:57] Speaker C: So indicated he's vindicated.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: Gets Gollum out of the way. He doesn't. Gollum, like, scurries away at some point and he goes to back to help Frodo. Frodo's tied up in all these cobwebs and he takes Frodo's sword and uses his own sword too. And he, like, stabs at this spider. And basically the author, Tolkien is like, nobody's ever killed the spider. No one will ever Kill the spider. And then the spider's like, you're not able to kill me. No one's ever even penetrated me. And then he's like, jokes on you and kills her. Kills her Just because he's pissed off and he's vindicated.
[00:37:39] Speaker C: Yep. He takes that sword and impales her. Well, she kind of kills herself because she jumps on him as his sword is out. And so as he's trying to crush her is how she gets killed. But, yeah, he still kills her.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: I'm sorry, I'm stuck on this note you have when your best friend gets a new best friend. It's sucks. What does that mean?
[00:37:58] Speaker C: This is because Sam was. This entire time was like, I hated.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: You from the beginning. I knew you were God, blah, blah, blah.
[00:38:05] Speaker C: And the whole time I was like, this is exactly how it feels of like, when your best friend gets a new best friend. And then you're like, I hated that girl the whole time. And guess what? She's a.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Oh, that's so funny.
[00:38:19] Speaker C: That's the only vibes I was getting from that. Like that. That whole back half, I was like, he's just so jealous.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Hey, they call jealousy the green monster for a reason.
And in a monster, he became.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:35] Speaker C: A monster so much, he took down a whole spider.
[00:38:38] Speaker B: Invincible spider that orcs can't defeat. Okay, okay.
[00:38:45] Speaker C: But this is not all fun and games for Sam because he believes that Frodo is dead because of this spider. He was too late. Frodo died. And he has to decide what he's going to do. He's like, do I have to take this ring? What am I going to do with the Ring? What am I going to do with Frodo? How can this go on? And he's like, you know what? I have to take the Ring even though I'm not worthy of it. This is what needs to be done. This is the ultimate evil we need to defeat. And so he ends up taking the Ring.
And he's trying to figure out how to leave when he hears orcs coming. And so he puts on the Ring and.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: And those orcs go and they find Frodo. And then they take Frodo and they call him a traitor or something.
Something along those lines. And they're like, we gotta put this guy in jail. And the whole time they're like, mumbling about, you don't want to piss off Shalab.
Shalob. Whatever her name is.
[00:39:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:40] Speaker C: I don't know.
[00:39:41] Speaker B: Meanwhile, we're like, she's dead, bro.
[00:39:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:45] Speaker C: And we also find out that he's not dead, he's just paralyzed because of the spider's venom.
[00:39:52] Speaker B: Yep. So then they say that. And Sam is like, well, f me.
The one thing I do that's actually morally correct in this story bites me in the ass. I was like, why didn't we just put the ring on his body and then take his body away?
[00:40:11] Speaker C: That's. Well, Sam would still be visible.
[00:40:14] Speaker B: That's true. But like, Sam can. He's. He's alive, so he can hide himself, you know.
[00:40:21] Speaker C: Well, yeah, they don't do that. And so the orcs end up taking him away. And so now Sam has the ring.
[00:40:28] Speaker A: But the enemy has Grotto.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: And that's how we end the story is Frodo gets thrown in a cell.
Sam watches him get thrown in that cell. We don't know what's happening with the Company because it's been a while. And that's all we're left with.
My predictions here. Okay. I deeply thought about this because obviously we know what happens with the story because it's such a famous story, Lord of the Rings, that I can't really predict the ending. You can, but you can predict the, like, details of the next story.
[00:41:03] Speaker C: You know, I suppose I honestly have no idea what happens other than what happens with the ring.
I have no idea what happens.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: I agree. I feel like I know like a scene or two from the next movie.
[00:41:23] Speaker C: I feel like once I read it or once it's visualized for me, once I read it, basically I will be like, oh, wait, this feels familiar because there was a couple of parts in this book that I was like, this kind of feels familiar.
Sort of. Not really, actually. This book didn't have a lot of that. But I do feel like I will have seen parts of. Well, okay. Parts of this movie that felt familiar. Helm steep. I'm like, I think there might be a bigger helm deep battle. I think that is in the third one, but I don't know any details about that.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: The third one.
The second movie.
[00:41:58] Speaker C: The third movie.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: The third movie. There's another Helms deep battle.
[00:42:02] Speaker C: I'm saying, isn't there a bigger helm seat battle in the third book slash movie?
[00:42:07] Speaker B: Could not tell you. That's interesting. I. I don't remember that at all. I do remember the one important, but.
[00:42:14] Speaker C: I'm like, is it. Was it just from this importance or was it. Is there more importance? Because I feel like what happened in this book wasn't enough importance, which is why I thought it was something else was going to happen in the third One. Because there shouldn't be enough remembrance for me from this book. I feel interesting.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: Well, we'll see.
So basically, my theory for the next one is that since we left off on them going to the. They went to, like, mount something. Yeah, the Company, Gandalf and the Company, they're going to somehow have, like, a vision of where Frodo is. Like, Gandalf's going to know where he is in his journey. And then Gandalf is going to just give us an Sam's got it kind of thing. Like, it's handled. And then that's all we're going to get from them. I do think the next book is going to kind of go between the two of them. I don't think it's going to be solely from one perspective, solely from the other perspective. And then at the very end, like, merge together. I do feel like we kind of need to go between everybody throughout both of the next two technical books.
One big book. I don't know. These book things got everybody confused, including myself.
Sam is gonna get Frodo out, obviously, at the. I. I feel like we're not gonna run into the rest of the Company until the very, very, very end of the next book. And it's gonna be at the most pivotal moment where Sam or Frodo is gonna have the ring and, like, be almost there. And then, like, Aragorn's gonna see them and be like, they need help. And then, like, rush over there and help them. And then they're gonna keep going while he's, like, fighting off whoever was attacking them. And that's going to be a pivotal moment in the book. I feel like that happens with every book. So I feel like that's going to happen with this book and that's not even knowing what happens in the next movie. Because I do not remember the next movie at all.
[00:44:02] Speaker C: I don't even know if I've watched the next movie. I just feel like it's happened around me enough that I picked up things.
[00:44:07] Speaker B: Things. This current movie, the. The movie we're talking about, Sid, has been on me about it because it's his favorite movie of all goddamn time.
[00:44:20] Speaker C: All right, I'm gonna tell you my predictions for the next book. Pretty sure they're gonna gather an army to go against Sauron because that's what has to happen next, Right?
[00:44:29] Speaker B: Agreed.
[00:44:30] Speaker C: We have to defeat them. I feel like we have to interact with Sauron a little bit more in person. But I'm pretty sure he's an Eye, Right. He doesn't Ever have a physical form?
[00:44:39] Speaker B: No. He does.
[00:44:40] Speaker C: He does.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: And I only know that because I have the head of Sauron on Sid's desk right next to me.
[00:44:46] Speaker C: Okay. So I do feel like we're gonna meet him in person at some point.
I don't know what that looks like. I don't know if it's like Frodo meeting him or if it's going to be in the battle or if it's going to be something else. But I do feel like we're going to spend time with him at least a little bit.
I assume that Sam will rescue Frodo. I'm not sure how. But he does have the Ring, so that is a plus. Although my one thing about the Ring is how long can Sam wear it without Sauron finding it?
[00:45:15] Speaker B: Because calling the dark writers because wasn't that the whole thing? Yeah, exactly.
[00:45:19] Speaker C: And if he wears it for longer amounts of time, I feel like it's easier for them to corrupt him and for him to start using it for them to find him. So I'm like, I don't know how long term this can actually be.
Which is another reason why I'm like, I don't know how he's going to rescue him.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:33] Speaker C: But Bilbo did wear it for a long time and doing lots of things. When he was trying to get the Orcs out of the elf place. That was weeks that he was going in between everybody's cell and talking to everybody and then hatching the plan and then getting them out. So I'm hoping that it's okay. But again, he didn't have somebody constantly trying to look for this ring the whole time.
[00:45:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:55] Speaker C: So I'm not sure how that's gonna go.
And then do they actually know how valuable Frodo is? Do they realize that this is actually who is supposed to have the ring? Or do they think that he's just a random guy? I know they said traitor, but they should just be guys.
[00:46:11] Speaker B: I think they think he's a random guy.
Like just a random someone. Random. Like, I don't think they think this is the hobbit that had the Ring, you know?
[00:46:22] Speaker C: Right.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: So I'm like, they would have said something like, he's high profile. Because at the end they were like, we're just gonna throw him in this one random cell. And he was like, why aren't you throwing him in the cells below ground? And he was like, I don't know. The tower is better. Like, basically, that's it. So.
[00:46:39] Speaker C: And I know that they reached Mount Doom. And I sort of know what happens on Mount Doom. But again, that is the only thing that I know about the next book going in.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: I don't even know what happens on Mount Doom. I assume they throw the ring in, but those are just assumptions.
[00:46:53] Speaker C: I mean, I don't know beat for beat what happens on Mount Doom, but I do know what happens on Mount Doom and who was there.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: Oh, dun dun dun dun dun dun. Next week on B and C Book.
[00:47:06] Speaker C: Club, we're going to have a book in between.
[00:47:08] Speaker B: So that's true. Next actually month.
Next month on BNC Book Club.
